Why Naga over Dasyus?

Naga KHD still has mines, Dasyus KHD does not. Sometimes that 7 points is all you need to squeeze another order, or perhaps 2 in Netrod's case.

 

Also, Because AVA 2 on Dasyus. which I often find myself hitting and still wanting infiltrating specialists.

 

About the cost, consider using 2 dasyu, they are 14 points over same 2 naga. There you have your 3 netrods or a dakini or a thorakite.



Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk

 

Personally I think 37 points for a one wound model is a lot. I know you get NWI and TO but it’s still lots of points. So as others have said you can fit in other things if you take the naga.

Also, depending on what you want to do with it - you mentioned the KHD. In my mind, a KHD is to either kill hackers, or use cyber mask for getting safely to an objective or trooper to assassinate. In those cases, TO is not more use than Camoflauge.

I really think it just boils down to if your list permits and your style/strategy suggests you would prefer a hacker with TO and NWI or not for more points.

As an aside, in terms of hackers, I prefer the Danavas hacker. Much cheaper and the programmes available on the HD+ make him a much more versatile hacker. And the extra WIP and courage is nice. No more failing hacking face to face rolls and having to move out of the danger zone into the line of fire of another trooper!

 

It all comes to "long term use".

The nagas, with Dogged, will have the same effect in Reactive as the Dasyus: shock, or the enemy needs to take down 2 wounds. Sure, the Dasyu is an extra -3, but you are going to get mileage of the NWI over Dogged if you manage to get a Medic there (there was also a hilarious discusison about how the Medikit would suffer the "to hit" penalties!!! XD), but the main problem is that both Nagas and Dasyus, unless you use them in Active Turn, will be attacked by MSV troops or troops with templates, specially cheap ones, in the end being a matter of "the important thing is to be on Marker state".

 

Hi,

I don't really think that the problem of the Dasyu is the Naga, but the Proxy Mkii. Because the proxy have almost the same options as the Dasyu but for less and no chance to loose one order. Naga vs Dasyus, they aren't the same. I'am not an Aleph player but I use a few in Pano Sectorials and have too many friends who play with it, so I confront Aleph several times and I see more Dasyus than Nagas, but more Proxys than Dasyus.

We don't talk about the naga monofilament here. It is a big exception.

 

One of my main opponent always use Dasyus. I always use Naga.

Dasyus provide surprise and better mods.

On the other side, naga are cheaper. On an elite army like Aleph it's very important. 7 points is nearly eanough to buy a lamed wich is one order and a good ARO to defend my ZD.



With naga, my 10 orders usually have 2 heavy hitters, 2/3 secondary hitters (including proxy), 2 nagas and 3/4 cheap orders (lamed, thorakites, daikini)

With a Dasyus I will have to replace one or two secondary hitter for more cheap orders.

The choice came to playstile

 

Proxy Mk.II only has the Assault HD profile. It's not even in the running.

My main choice, if I take Dasyu at all, is Dasyu FO. You get Mines, immune to Hackers, Can do the FO better (due to additional visual mods), same equipment, Nanopulser. Otherwise Dasyu is very expensive, but operates in mid-field where the chance of mines is highest - and if Dasyus hate one thing, it is Mines.

Naga I take for two reasons; in general, because they are cheaper and provide most of the benefit of Dasyu. Cheapness also helps when losing it to Shock.
But KHD specifically because it has mines. Furthermore, as far as missions are concerned, Camo gives you Surprise Shot, but otherwise doesn't matter for Hacking, so Naga and Dasyu are both the same Hacking performance.

 

Curious Urobros, I rarely see any Dasyu in other aleph players

In my case, starting roster always includes Achilles Lt , naga khd to protect him and Naga miner to control the other line of map. In case of not using Achilles, perhaps I would consider the FO Naga instead. But the Naga with boarding shotgun and mines is a beast. The slaughters she has done couldn't be achieved with the dasyu.

For me is like Urobros said, the role of dasyu is done (and much better) with the MK2 hacker.


Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk

 

Interesting. Why do you think MK2 isn't in the running, of course, she cannot kill other hackers hacking, but I find her more versatile. Ahd to mesh IP and boarding shotgun to hit fireteams or other groups of figures close enough

Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk

 

Don't get me wrong, Proxy Mk.II is awesome - big part is also combination of Boarding Shotgun and specialist. But it's a completely different piece from KHD and FO.

Basically, from Dasyu, only 2 loadouts I even consider are KHD and FO, with KHD being rare because of lack of Mines. Also, depending on mission I might consider Boarding Shotgun or Lt , but that is almost never.
For Nagas, I also only ever consider KHD and FO, with Minelayer for killing. I'd love to use Monofilament mines, but they are expensive yet rarely truly worth it and she's not particularly good at doing anything else.

In both cases, AHD and Sniper are not even considered, even when I say play Acontecimento and I don't have access to Proxy. AHD is simply too expensive, and usefulness over FO is marginal - easily matched by a repeater and a backup hacker, while adding vulnerability to Hackers. Camo/TO Camo Snipers are generally (as in, not just Aleph) too expensive for what they do.

Thus, even if I did not have a Proxy, I'd still never use Dasyu or Naga AHD or Sniper loadouts.
If they had a Missile Launcher or some other indirect template, that'd be different, but as it is, nah, not taking the "ARO" mode.

 

Yeah it's more or less the same for me.

When I started to play vanilla aleph I used even 2 dasyu (khd and fo or even boarding shotgun). Soon I realised both Naga could do the same for less points and usually they die in the same horrible manner where dogged or nwi wasn't important. So for me the option is clear.

Now we have Dart in the same equation. I find difficult to make room for her and two nagas so I think the naga miner will drop for a while.

Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk

 

With Dart we only have a new option. She has a different role than nagas. @Nemo No Name yes, you have a good point here. They aren't the same kind of device and have some differents uses. I was thinking more in the Camo Option. Dasyus and Proxy have the same level, and that why I made the comparison. For what you said here I think most of player have the same considerations. In the Naga case (and probably the Dasyu too) KHD comes before AHD because is cheaper and the profile have mines. Same for the FO.

@pedrogzc probably I saw Dasyus why I have some friends who came from N2 and still have love for the Dasyus... :)

 

Oh, I still love Dasyus, but they are too expensive for any kind of regular usage, or when you are adding units to fill missing roles. I use Dasyus in lists I build for them, while Nagas I use when I just need a forward-deployed-marker-state-specialist.

Dart is quite a different beast, I agree, but a great one. I'm gonna stick her in into most lists because she's tough enough and has options to fight most other units, but cheap enough that she can be a backup assault-piece. :)

 

I’ve had tons of fun (and wins) out of a second combat group with two Dasyu specialists. Two very deadly specialists, that can pop out of hiding once the fighting is done - whereever you need them.

The naga work very differently, by telling your opponent, that ‘here be speed bumps’ and forces him to deal with the situation, waste time, choose a different attack vector etc.

The big difference lies in Hidden Deployment. Can you afford ‘losing an order’, do you want to control your opponents choices, do you need an endgame surprise etc. So its not as much a comparison of numbers, as it is about devising a strategy, that has a use for, what they bring to the table.

 

The Naga Minelayer is a uniquely excellent profile IMO.

 

He is my preferred profile

Enviado desde mi Mi A1 mediante Tapatalk

 

For me it's the naga FO. Not as strong as the dasyu, but good enough and cheaper. He's still a great pain for the opponent, and a versatile tool that can mark objectives (obviously), assassinate with mines and combi, or do area denial job quite good with either suppressive fire or flash pulse. The dasyu FO wouldn't bring much except for the -6 mod to hit - hidden deployment is not needed when you precisely want your opponent to spend orders avoiding an area or dealing with a threath. As for NWI, dogged is good enough since most of the times the opponent want it dead and would still spend another order to get rid of that annoying dogged naga.

 

72 points minimum for 2 specialists in HD is basically quarter of your force that you're leaving hidden, not even providing orders for the rest. That's a big handicap that any competent opponent will easily see and punish you for.