Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Solar, Sep 26, 2020.
@zorlax7 that’s the idea! Keep ‘em guessing up til you start spending orders or use the repeater.
I want to write an Iggy list but almost feel like she goes better in Vanilla
Mary and Iggy are a match made in heaven. But, for that matter, Jazz is the girl Iggy can actually take home to momma, so CJC should work.
I used to feel the same way because of White Noise but now...
Plus SS2 on a hacker makes repeaters that much more annoying.
This is my current anti-hi list I’m playing with.
Basically, it’s gonna win the infowar game.
Could use more big guns but combis aren’t terrible at short range as well.
Gents, I feel like I've broken the hacking code. All (HI, REMs, and TAGs) shall know me, and despair.
@Vakarian sell me on the bandit? I still struggle to define its role.
The Bandit is a jack-of-all-trades attack piece that is meant to be the "spanner in the works" sort of trooper. It always has a way to kill its intended target, and it doesn't cost you much to lose the Bandit doing it.
My preferred method (and why I've chosen the combi/mines/deployable repeater profile) is to attack one of three ways, depending on the target:
1. Soft (1-wound, typically LI/MI) links: walk up to link using move-move under camo state to avoid AROs. You *always* move-move from total cover to total cover so you can re-camo if your opponent risks a Discover ARO. Then, when you get up to the link, you drop a mine at the corner where it will explode and hit multiple link members. The Bandit then corners and shoots the closest member of the link. Usually, only that guy can draw LOF back to the Bandit so your Bandit is protected by the FTF roll. The link has to eat the mine if they want to not break and let the main shooter get link bonuses. If they dodge and the shooter shoots, he gets no bonuses and the Bandit probably wins FTF. Some might still fail to dodge the mine. If they all dodge, your Bandit is safe an opposes the closest dodging model by shooting him with the combi. You should move to peek out and shoot and then move back into total cover when you do this so you can drop mines 2 and 3 and pull this trick a few more times if necessary. It usually ends with 4-5 link members (and the Bandit) dead. A worthy trade.
2. Hard (hackable targets, so HI, REMs, and TAGs). Walk the Bandit up and place a deployable repeater. Jazz IMM-B's the TAG through the repeater. Then the Bandit walks into CC with the TAG and takes it apart while it has to Reset. If it successfully Resets, Jazz just IMM-B's it again and the Bandit goes back to work. This probably ends with the Bandit dying in your opponent's next turn. Another worthy trade.
3. A lone midfield hard target (typically something with mimetism in suppressive fire). You walk into ZOC of the entrenched enemy and force a ZOC ARO while dropping camo (or don't bother, depending on how mods will stack on what I'm about to explain next). The enemy forfeits its ARO or dodges at -3 (which breaks suppressive) and you move in engaged state on the second short skill. Alternately you can just walk right into BTB and stack mimetism, surprise shot, and Martial Arts to help win the FTF. I often don't do this because my opponents like to crit on 3's or 4's with three dice in suppressive. Not fun. Regardless, you then CC the guy to death because he only knows how to shoot, not how to stab things. When you're done, you re-camo, hopefully survive the next turn, and can keep pulling this stunt or sacrifice your Bandit in some other blaze of glory.
Hope those examples make sense! The Bandit is a versatile bully who always has a way to pick on the weaker kid, by picking the fight where he's stronger and his target is weaker. He's kind of a combination of a scalpel and a big circus hammer.
P.S. I would avoid the hackers (so you aren't exposed to KHD AROs once you reveal) and the shotgun models, because shotguns lost their ability to drop impact templates in N4. A shotgun Bandit is an expensive, one-use weapon. A combi Bandit can spend an entire order pool causing mayhem like I described above before finally succumbing.
Low cost first turn attacker good at penetrating defenses using token state and picking an important target(s). Use it to interrupt your opponent's plan A and create openings for further turns. If you want to get better with it make sure you know the token state rules well.
@zorlax7 here's a diagram of what I meant for scenario number 1, in case it wasn't very clear. So advanced is my technique (ok, ancient...), it even has clipart! Hope this helps explain a good use.
In the diagrams, the Bandit is the red circle and enemies are blue. Pretend they're Fusiliers and a Kamau, for sake of argument! This is how to gut a Kamau's order pool and link bonuses in about five orders. It may take more; the movement is not to scale. That said, 4-4 move under camo is pretty darn fast. You might need an extra order or two beyond the five I'm assuming here if you're starting behind the midline.
Order number one: move-move past the Kamau MSR into total cover. If he waits, you're safe. If he discovers and succeeds, you can recamo.
Order number two: move-move to the edge of the building, setting up your next move-move.
Order number three: move-move past the sniper again.
Order number four: move up and drop your mine.
Order number five: peek out, scoot back into total cover, second short skill BS attack the link leader. You lose cover (meh) and don't worry about recamoing before you do this because the Fusilier on the corner is in the link and has Sixth Sense. Here's where all the little Fusis have hard decisions to make: all dodge? Closest Fusi shoots while the rest dodge and break the link? Closest Fusi shoots while the link idles and eats the mine? Your Kamau can't save you now.
This works for lots of other camo markers, especially any with mines, but the Bandit is exceptionally good at it and has the tools to tackle other problems if the link isn't what you need to kill. I never really write a Nomads list (CJC or vanilla) without one Bandit.
Edited because I'm a dope and forgot one of the diagrams. It should be five orders to set this up on the board I've laid out. This may or may not be doable in five orders from the midline if your opponent is buried deep in his DZ. It should be if he's on the edge of his DZ.
P.P.S. this is why the Bandit is in a second combat group. Now that the link is down, a shooter from the main group can torch the Kamau and for turn one I've taken down 33-50% of the opponent's force and orders, with minimal risk beyond the Bandit himself.
Ran this last night. Supremacy against Tunguska. 7-2 victory, was a blast, everything seemed to overperform.
Gecko is great, 17 orders in the list are noticeable, wildcats took out kriza, lupe took down a hollowmen with her nanopulser, gecko probably got about 8 kills.
Anyone else get any games in yet?
Excellent explanation. I use a Tomcat (and formerly the Hellcat HMG / E/Mauler) in a similar way. I always find the buildings on the flanks are close enough to provide only enough of a gap for Cautious Movement.
Yep, camo isn’t always needed. Cautious move on other attackers can do the trick. The loss of the HMG/E-Mauler Hellcat is sad because it was a really excellent piece to pull this trick off too. I’ll keep my bemoaning the changes of shotguns in N4 to myself, although this trick used to be absurdly better with an impact template on the shotgun instead of a direct template.
I like the Bandit because the marker state lets him move-move, and I can use him as my holdback piece if I’m going first and deploying first, so he can be placed right up on the centerline as close to the enemy link as possible.
This list had Sombra RF and Zero KHD in there first, but after reading comments from another thread here I swaped Sombra's RF for a KHD and MultiRifle, and took KHD away from Zero and gave him some Mines. I like Assault Pistol Morlocks, but E/M CCW Morlocks seem much better if E/M CCW works like AP+DA+Isolate vs BTS, so I took 2 of those.
Any comments on the list? Is CG layout OK?
I made something... Wierd. Any sugestiom to optimize this?
Need to add your Puppetbots to the list, unless you just want the controller. Otherwise is very solid hacking list; I would say overkill even.
I would swap the Bandit and the Warcor. The Bandit could wind up with something very powerful on the Booty roll, and Repeater Morans tend to have a very short lifespan.
For other stuff you could do, you already have a lot of hacking capability - I would try and scrounge a point to change Valerya to Lupe, probably by downgrading the Alguacil Paramedic to a regular version. That way you have 5SWC and a smart opponent might think the Alguacil is the LT.
I've yet to try this and it will probably be a while before I do as I mostly play vanilla and I don't feel comfortable with proxying, but maybe it'll inspire some ideas for others.
The plan is to havea a Jaguar core with Jazz, Mobile Brigada and Daktari. MB brings the firewall and with Jazz they can spotlight targets for the vertigo.
Then a Jaguar haris with either Senor Massacre or Evader Engineer. The idea is that if there's a linked MSV2 sniper on the opposing side, Massacre will duo with the Gecko and attempt to deliver a DAM15 chain rifle to its face. It's not a very strong plan, I know. Other option is to cover Jazz's approach with eclipse smokes so she can get a pitcher close to the sniper and then spotlight it for vertigo.
To top things off, Gecko duo with either Evader engineer to keep it running or Senor Massacre to cover its advance.
Second group is mostly for reactionary troops with enough orders for Vertigo to shoot its missiles or Morans to FO people.
EDIT: Ignore this piece of crap, I just realized it doesn't have a lieutenant. Corregidor is seriously lacking with reasonable lt. options.
We got everything on the table but the cranberry sauce. It sucks, I love that stuff, but it would be bratty to complain at this point.
It almost sounds like we got some reasonable drawbacks as an internal balancing factor for all the batshit insane stuff CJC can now do.
We do have limited Lt options, and I sure miss the option on the Intruder (even if I didn't use it much) but the Brigada Lt is a good durable option now with the 15 Troop limit in place, and Wildcard. He makes a good T3 bully with a spare order once long range guns are down and you don't care about LOL anymore.