1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What lieutenant in Vanilla ?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Arkhos94, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    A question to vanilla player, what lieutenant do you prefer to play and why ?

    Joan for the coordinated order and cheap cheerleader ?
    A TAG to go offensive ?
    Some cheap fusilier with 1 or 2 fusilier to hide him
    Safe and sound with some TO lieutenant
    Something I did not think of
     
    Golem2God likes this.
  2. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    1,781
    Joan all day, every day. I just recently played my first Vanilla tournament and she is just SO good.

    Inspiring Leadership gives you the "free" coordinated order every turn for positioning or suppression.

    The extra SWC allows you to take a big TAG or extra weapons to put the hurt on the enemy.

    She's no slouch in CC, helping her fend off enemy impersonators that attempt an assassination.

    Turning all irregular troopers regular allows you to take a Warcor, Tech Bee, Helot SMG, and a Monstrucker while making them all regular.

    She also gives the entire army V:Courage! Many people forget about that, but she allows any unit in your army to duck and cover or hold the line. She'll have your army wondering "what even is a guts check, anyway?"

    In short, there are probably cases to be made for other lieutenants in specific situations, but there's a reason we call Vanilla PanO "The Joan Faction."
     
  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

    Joined:
    May 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,299
    Likes Received:
    7,519
    One way to break it down is that Joan + her big Irregular crew gives you all of that utility, combat capability, 6 Orders for your pool, and plenty of support at ~13 points per model. That's Joan, Warcor, Tech Bee, Helot, Monstrucker. Quite a bargain, since it's not much more expensive than just taking the equivalent number of Fusiliers, but obviously you get way more capability from Joan and Company.
     
    theradrussian, Barrogh, volgo and 4 others like this.
  4. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    @ThananRollice and @barakiel : do you go Joan 1 or 2 (and why) ?

    Noone take the cutter as lieutenant ? From a non-pano player point of view it looks like a very nice/resilient tool
     
  5. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    1,261
    I spot a CA player trying to know to who he should throw his Speculo. :rage:
    Joan is common in Vanilla, yes, because she is not easy to take down for a Speculo or a Fiday, specificly, in addition to all the interesting things she brings. I won't answer for myself until the Merovingian satellite is behind us but outside of Joan, Fusilier and maybe Santiago, neither of the PanO Lt is common. Why? Because we have a hell ton of good lieutenants, even more now that the ZC sensor is one of them (for 1 SWC though).
    And now that we have a NCO Teuton with Spitfire and Patsy, it could even be an Auxilia or any other garden keeper like the Regular.
     
    Lesh' likes this.
  6. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

    Joined:
    May 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,299
    Likes Received:
    7,519
    @Arkhos94
    The problem with the Cutter LT is that, if you start in Hidden Deployment, you also trigger Loss of Lieutenant. Chain of Command doesn't help there either. So this forces you to deploy the Cutter LT as a TO Camo token during deployment, to prevent Loss of LT from occurring. And while that certainly doesn't mean the Cutter is useless, one of the greatest things about the Cutter is its ability to use Hidden Deployment to protect itself, and deploy in a place where your opponent doesn't quite know where it is.
     
  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    Joke's on him. Boxing the Speculo in with a Helot Decoy reserve piece make that not much of an issue unless you're facing an Avatar list. If you go first you should be able to deal with a Speculo in proximity to your Lt anyway. The only way you'll have to worry about a Speculo is if you don't know it was coming or if you go second and don't get to deploy a reserve trooper because you're up against the Avatar.
    TO troops make for remarkably bad Lts since you have to forfeit the tactical value and security of Hidden Deployment (or risk starting your turn 1 in LoL).
    As usual for Infinity it depends on the mission. Jotum (+Bolt) is something I haven't run yet, but would definitely consider for something that awards points for Lt kills. For missions with Reinforced Tactical Link you wouldn't even need the CoC. Same thing if the tournament allows Spec OPs to get "free" CoC and/or a better Engineer (plus an extra Minelayer). Joan Lt is solid all around, but always obvious and probably costs you the second big assault piece or Swiss ML ARO you could also pull off with those points. If you're not running Joan and just put in Warcor&Techbee, 2 Command Tokens will also make those 2 Regular Orders to pull off a nasty Alphastrike. In later turns the Techbee often doesn't mind spending her Order towards pushing a button and both of them can hold a Zone on their own or repositioning their Flashpulse.

    Joan V2 EXP CCW is a damn great troop in Vanilla next to one of the many scary HMGs for a high performance trooper in group 2. At first glance the Lt option seems so much better. Inspiring Leadership is neat, no question. But it also forces you to bring some CoC or to sit back and watch till turn 3. Running V2 gives you a 6-2 BS15 gun able to clear Camo Markers, shrug off DTWs&Mines and able to do something about that smoke cloud that went down with a crit without repositioning your MSV2 HMG half across the table. On top of Stealth and her ability to beat up stuff in CC (including Objectives).
    For your Lt you just want to be as safe as possible and V1 just can take more of a beating, while hopefully ending turn 1 dug in and in SF. Even though you'll have her 50 points sit back there are more than enough ways to kill her (including a random AD trooper just getting lucky). For those reasons I rarely use a Joan Lt in Vanilla. The points invested on expensive troops should have frontloaded value in my mind. Joan relies on other troops to win the game for you.

    2+ Fusiliers is always solid, but fairly obvious, so I'd always try to make that at least 3 or add a Acon Regular/Auxilia Profile to serve as Lt/Lt decoy. A lot of lists will be a point short for the Auxilia FO anyway or have SWC left over so you can go for one of the less obvious linetrooper Lts. They have a few advantages, people run them so rarely that less experienced players don't even know their Lt Profiles exist. Against experienced players they'll still need to figure out if you had the left over SWC to run them or if they should go for the Fusiliers.

    For some reason Vanilla also got access to the Zulu Cobra Jammer Lt at 1 SWC. That guy can sit back all day and still provide Sensor and Triangulated Fire across the table. Without having to care much about Speculos, Fidays and Spec Fire (if anyone even tries to go after him, since there will be 2+ Fusiliers on the board as well, right?).

    Don't really see the point of the Santiago Lt in Vanilla. His only real value over Joan V2 is being a Specialist and E/M Grenades, both of which will be hard to use while sitting in your DZ unless you also shell out for a CoC Bolt just so you then can spend Orders on a BS14 Spitfire. Might as well take Joan V2 EXP + stuff instead, trading the E/M and Specialist for being much faster and better at murdering things.
     
    #7 Teslarod, Sep 25, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  8. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    1,781
    I really wish the Joan V2 Lt had an EXP CC weapon.
     
    Death, xammy and Lesh' like this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation