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What if Jammer's Isolation was persistant only in Jammer's ZoC

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by eciu, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    So let us think of reworking Jammer from being one of the best weapons in game to a tool with a dedicated use-case, and own limitations.


    What if Jammer was causing the Isolation which lasts ONLY as long as a victim is in ZoC of Jammer (any enemy Jammer?) ? As soon as a victim leaves the ZoC of Jammer (due to jammer guy moving, dying, Isolated guy declaring MOV-MOV, being Case-Evaced etc.) the "Isolation" state is removed from the victim.

    If rules clarification needs that we could probably even add new "Isolation State Lv 1/2/X".

    I think that it would change a Jammer a bit from almost automatic "I kill you!" weapon to an actuall point defense/super-sensor. If Jamming guy is positioned correctly (with a strategic thinking) he can still block/disable single Rambos as effectively as before.
    He still will be nuisance and problem for link teams (especially if leader gets isolated) but allowing the use of "fallback" mechanism of case-EVAC (hilariously underused thing).
    If someone wants to execute lot of orders inside Jammers ZoC (hello AC2 and Looting&Sabotaging) he still be as vulnurable to Jammer as before.

    I think it a good solution to making Jammer less abusive (in a way that it's Isolation effect is not THAT much punishing) through giving a way to lift the Isolation in a way of killing jammering model.


    Your thoughts ?
     
  2. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I like it, it sounds like an interesting way of doing it.
     
  3. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    what if there was a way to move past a jammer armed troop without giving them a chance to jam you?

    what if you could use this to get LOF to the jammer so you could shoot them?
     
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  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It still keeps a big problem in nowadays situation: a cheap unit can remove from battle an expensive one (HI) unless an engineer is brought there (who will remove both statuses anyway...).

    I mean, the idea is good, but against HI would turn into an "Adhesive Launcher that needs to LoF and so ignores visual modifiers"
     
  5. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Wow, since when we have thrown "ARO stacking" out of the window ?

    Or fact that said Jammer sits under nice and cousy Camo state (with a few other nearby CAMO markers just for lulz).
     
  6. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well you can use other units to kill Jamming unit (removing Isolated state) or use someone else (baggage bot to the rescue) to actually haul victim out of ZoC of Jammer.

    And Jamming unit cannot go on "jamming spree" if he wants to keep that TAG/Achilles jammed for next turn.
     
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  7. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I've thought about this quite a bit and I actually think the isolated states idea achieves this same principle pretty well.

    If you had iso-1 and iso-2, with iso-1 being resetable with a face to face with jamming. A model still within the jammer zoc would have a hard time clearing the jam. But once the jammer was dead or out of zoc it would clear pretty easily.
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Isolated equivalents of IMM-1 and IMM-2 would be easier to keep track of, and more consistent with the rest of the rules.
     
  9. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The idea of an ISO equivalent of IMM-1 and IMM-2 is a good one.

    A Jammer in an inaccessible place (rooftop, inside corner of a building near an important passage) will still be really annoying and difficult to deal with. It would cost you a lot of orders, especially since they will probably Jam your Reset attempts.

    As a cool side effect, it also makes Irregular troops better, as they can get out of the Jammer's range and Reset rather than having to Reset still inside the Jammer's range, in a Face to Face. From a fluff perspective, that makes their independence an asset while Regular troopers deal less well with being isolated from the chain of command, data sphere, etc.
     
  10. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    There is, don't forget about the Nullifier.
    It's just that is only available for Tohha/SC/CA...
     
  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    i was taking the piss (stealth is available to all)
     
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  12. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Unless of course that Jammer is in a linkteam... like every single SpecOp for Haqq or Pan O will be at Interplanetario this year. :face_with_rolling_eyes:

    Stealth is not enough of an answer, even outside SpecOps tourneys. Jammers are super broken and need a nerf.
     
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  13. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Shrug, its not.my place to tell people how and.what the best way to set that up or deal with it is. Ive got my ideas and ill keep them.to myself for now
     
  14. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Yes, but I would make a guess that if it was not yet done this way then mayby game designers might not be happy with this particular thing (thought the conistency is a big deal an advantage over mine idea)
     
  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Blessed are the people who while having nothing to say do not brag about it.
     
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  16. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Hrrm Veteran L1 for 4 XP hrrrm...
     
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  17. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest a limiting change in a different direction.

    Make it even stronger! I think it would be interesting if it also slowed the enemy as well as isolate it. But in exchange, you’d need to “lock” your jammer to the unit.

    Your jammer would be locked with the enemy unit, but if it did another attack, or if it was killed, the lock would break.

    They’d act as even stronger roadblock, which they’re meant to be strong as. But they’d offer better counterplay options.
     
  18. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    I think it would a bit too easy to ignore the jammer just by entering/Exiting his ZoC in the same order, and repeat until you've crossed the area. Most units have move/move of 8 inches after all, and those who have more could just cruise past it (bikes for example).

    Personally I'd just make isolated last 2 player turns. It's enough to stop any attacker dead in its tracks, stranded in the middle of nowhere and ripe for the picking.
     
  19. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Hurr durr optional rules.
     
  20. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    You were talking about Jammer in FT so, of course, Vet L1 for 4XP is relevant (note that it cost the same as a Jammer and provide more than just countering it).
     
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