I'm playing a game with DBS today, so I put myself a list together (and fell into the same old ways building it as usual. But hey.). And after that, I decided to go and try how cheap can I make a DBS list. Two criteria there: Legal 300pts Tactical Window list. Has to have a semblance of sensibility. So, Firetaems, Specialists, SWC weapons. Not an optimal setup there, but some of these. That's what I came up with: ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 8 2 1 HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18) HUNZAKUT Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 19) BRAWLER (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) BRAWLER Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) BRAWLER (Doctor) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19) BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 16) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 15) GROUP 2 3 2 2 FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) KAMEEL (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) 2 SWC | 194 Points Open in Infinity Army Group #2 is, obviously, intended to power the 2 Yuan Yuan. Group #1 has a Brawler Fireteam for a defensive setup, and two Hunzakuts for forward operations. Plus an extra order under current ITS on the Fugazi Dronbot. Additional shenanigans are possible, should any of the Bounty Hunters bring in an interesting weapon (due to Booty). It is, of course, short on: support weapons, specialists really competent troops The main idea behind this build (as it is a steal at 194pts / 2SWC) is you still have over 100pts and 4 SWC to spend. With a Tactical Window format, this means you can kick any of the models there out, and replace it with a more competent one. It is also not the cheapest DBS list possible, of course. That would look more this way: ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 7 3 2 HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Light Shotgun, Shock Mines ( | Deployable Repeater) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18) HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 18) BRAWLER (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 16) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) GROUP 2 3 2 2 FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) KAMEEL (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) 1.5 SWC | 177 Points Open in Infinity Army ...you could go even further, but more than 3 Irregular Orders per combat groups are, IMO, going too far.
I think the biggest downside to DBS is that in most cases you aren't including many Druze. It may as well be Random Stuff the Faction.
There's a point to what you say. Then again, there doesn't seem to be many reasons to include actual Druze in your list. There is only a single unit called Druze (plus one character). And they don't bring anything that would make them an autoinclude. Or even, "include often enough". I guess "count-as-Druze for Fireteam composition" troops don't feel Druze'y enough to matter. But I have a feeling it is a natural consequence of building a sectorial on a single unit.
I don't think it's that the sectorial is built around a single unit, rather that the single unit is not a good value, and certainly not good enough to warrant having more than a couple. This isn't limited to just DBS, a lot of factions had holes in their rosters filled with nonsense. Why are we bringing mining specialists on covert operations? Hell, why are we bringing train repair people? Or any other number of civilians? Mostly lazy design and filling in gaps without actually having to make units specific to the faction. This again is a symptom of a larger problem, which is CB refusing to go through and prune factions, go over profiles to rebalance them, and so forth that really make Infinity feel like it's been on the backburner since N4 released 3 years ago.
Paramilitary units can be brought because they are there and can be used, Triphammers is the most logical TAG for a covert ops mission if it happens around a mining site or any other heavy industries operations, it is definitely easier to be on site than an actual military TAG, not sure on Monstruckers, I think Druze control some of the lanes to one of the Earths space elevator so they will have at least some massive cargo haulers in their control, maybe they have the same arrangements in other planets. It does not feel off to have them on their lists. Now for Druze themselves, I do not know, I play heavy Druze lists, I would not object them been slightly cheaper but I never felt I should make a list excluding them.
Risking derailing the original idea of the topic - well, two of the three available DBS Lt. opitons are Druze Lt. and Arslan. Not that any of them makes for a stellar Lt. choice. Or even an interesting one, IMO.
....no, no you don't take the equivalent of a bulldozer with a gun strapped to it into a firefight if you can help it. No you don't bring along the guy who hasn't trained with you to the fight if you can help it. Even in DBS you wouldn't want to have to execute every civvy you bring along to make sure it stays quiet. DBS: Alright, we're going to hit this O-12 facility and we need to do it fast and quiet, nobody can know it was us. Justin: Well, what about me? I work on space trucks for a living but I can help you guys do some repairs and shit. DBS: Ok, I guess Justin can come along, anyone know him? Can he be trusted? No. Well whatever, keep your mouth shut Justin. Dave: Hey, I'm a reporter and this sounds like a great news story, can I tag along too? DBS: I guess, you do have a really aggressive flash on that camera. Laura: I'm a miner by trade, but I suppose I could come along if you can pay me. I've got this mining rig I strapped a couple guns to. it's not great but I come cheap. I'm also not really trained for this, but I shoot space worms on occasion. DBS: Ok, sounds good. Now, if only we could make this even more conspicuous, does anyone know of an Aristea! personality we could hire on, you know, to be the face of the op? The problem is that instead of actually working on the factions and sectorials to give them units that make sense and fill the gaps that they imagine are there (and therefore homogenizing them, another issue and topic entirely) CB goes the lazy route and just tosses random nonsense at them. There is a whole other topic on the dilution of character, strengths, and weaknesses that is caused by this that I should make at some point, but on the whole I just don't think CB cares. Hell, it's been 3 years and hardly any work has been done on N4.
Uh... what are you asking about? My opening post? Purely points value. I meant it would be possible to make a 15-Order DBS list with a few points less than I did. I stopped, however, at what I considered to be a cheapest sensible list IMO. Spoiler: For comparison (and an excercise in futility ;)) this is an even cheaper - and still [I]legal [/I]- list. But it is by no mean sensible in my eyes. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 5 5 4 BOUNTY HUNTER Submachine Gun, Akrylat-Kanone / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 12) BRAWLER (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14) MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 12) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) WARCOR (Sixth Sense) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3) GROUP 2 3 2 2 FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7) KAMEEL (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) KAMEEL (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) YUAN YUAN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 8) 0 SWC | 144 Points Open in Infinity Army
That made my laugh harder than it should have. Worth it. funny, how everyone and his mum shouted at me as I mentioned the exact same point with Fireteams beeing a bunch of throwen together people, but they work exactly like a team of units of the same corps who trained together for years. But thats an issue of the past. Well, over are the times of Druze Cores since the grenade launcher got nerfed. Gonna miss that time. "I shoot speculative with my E/M grenade launcher at you units for the next 10 orders." That was fun and interactive gameplay To be honest i realy like the design of the Druze as a unit, and also to have a unit that comes with the X-visor per default. But thats..... nice in terms of gameplay. Normaly u want to be in +3 range, and there will mostly be the fitting loadout for the range. The question seems to be, is the glitter druze has as special stuff worth the point cost around 28 Points avarage. X-visor is nice, but thats all Veteran is ok, but MI´s are not the main Target of hacking. And is E/M and the nerfed Jammer realy that much of a threat? BS +1 Dmg is.... well...okay? But all of the above is expensive. ARM/BTS 3 is nice. Still not great. And brawler can not just achive the same for less, they also bring the nice and mighty MSV2 to the party (which can be part of the druze team) Funny thing: The druze MSR brings Mimetism. Together they are nearly a Kamau sniper. Druze seem to be more of a afacionado unit atm. But I also saw not very much NA2 overall in the last months.
@anubis we do have a topic on "how to fix DBS" somewhere, I'm pretty sure about it... That being said - yes, you are right about Druze Shock Teams. The current state of Infinity doesn't really make the avialble Druze loadouts worth much. Which could be fixed by either adjusting the Druze, or changing the game more broadly (because they seem to be a part of the wider Medium Infantry problem discussed elsewhere).
All of na2 barring maybe JSA and forco is a bit creaky and could do with a good rebalance. It doesn't seem to have had a really well thought out transition to this new fireteam era for the most part
It has not gotten any attention since N4 release, and like most factions it was barely given any in that change over. CB has been...reluctant to get involved with Infinity for a while now, 3 years on and no real updates to factions that are left to languish. Additionally, nothing to pull the factions that are overperforming back down to where they should be. TBH, the win rate spread might actually be worse than 40ks after GWs last balance pass.
Druze as a theme for a sectorial is not enough. It should offer more troop with Druze in the name, but anyway I like to play them as a bunch of mercenarys that loosly tied togheter by a core of Druze. My Druze army contains three Druze and is more a niche side project. Sometimes I struggle to get a 15 troopers list that actualy hit the 300 pts. (what is the main theme here). So it needs some expensice characters or one or two TAGs. I think even before we have the NA2 sectorial a friend of me painted a QK force around a big core of Druze and keep them in the Druze color scheme, that ties the army together and gives you more of a feel for the thing, than a thematic choice of troops can ever accomplish.
I disagree and do not share your opinion that these are random people who just happened to tag along Druze, of course you can take the most uncharitable position and say they are random who just tagged along (and to be fair it could happen in some scenarios, for example an ad hoc formation escaping some city invaded by CA) but most probable they are personnel already in employment of Druze and used in operations. It is not "hey I have a modified TAG can I come along", it is a "we have signed you up to work as a construction worker in this site, have your modified TAG ready to assist if the situation is needed".
That certainly goes a long way - a very long way! - to bring an army together visually. I'm not going to do it for my DBS though, as they are a side project - a number of DBS models I use are from my QK or other armies. Resulting in a somewhat rag-tag look (yes, years ago my instructor said to us "the troops may look crappy, but they are to look the same way of crappy!" ;) ).
You mean more Druze in the list or more dedicated troop types. Like a HI in Druze design or a dedicated AD-Troop - I would like to see that, but I think it will not sell super well, so maybe an idea for the next free lt. ed. mini. I think it is worth the efford, but to be honest - my Druze list is a mercenary list from the look.
The problem is such a dedicated Druze Hi or AD would be either limited to a single sectorial (DBS, which is... not the most popular, and thus well-selling, one), or would have to spill to other armies, too. Which is why I'd rather support importing an existing HI (or AD. Or both, if it is necessary), like the Dahshat have imported Zuyong Invincibles (as these are supposedly the best HI armors available on the open market). Maybe add a few profiles unique to Druze (though nothing warranting a new sculpt) to represent their use by seasoned Druze Shocktroopers, and call it a day.
