The following is more a question of interest as I'd unlikely ever play it this way due to making game mechanics break down. Open and Private information says that all open information must be shared during deployment. Normally this can be handled by giving your opponent your courtesy list. However it seems to have one oversight when it comes to hacking. Hacking programs are considered open information, but if you have a model holo projected as a hacker who is not actually a hacker, then technically if you do not verbally disclose the information that this model does not have any actual hacking programs then they won't learn this from the courtesy list and you're not fullfilling the requirements to share all open information during deployment. Out of curiosity does anybody actually play it that for example a Kanren FO masquerading as a Kanren KHD, when deployed needs to inform the opponent that this model does not actually have any hacking programs available to them, and thereby giving away that it's not actually a KHD? I'm also interested in how the Spanish version of the rules translates. The English ones make it sound like you must volunteer all information without prompting during deployment, and then also when prompted during the game.
It should only come up when they walk into a hacking area, iirc. From the wiki on hacking devices: They automatically identify whether a figure—but not a Marker—inside the Hacker's Hacking Area is targetable by a specific Hacking Program.
As you say, you only give a Courtesy List. That is what the opponent gets, further data you need to provide being a second group (if you have one, even if it's populated with AD or Hidden Deployment troops) and, depending on how you read the rules on camo markers, to which group do they belong (I don't want to reopen that discussion, there are people who thinks Camo markers have no group, others like me believe you have to say to which combat group they belong). It would be best if you play on the army online page and make several lists with Holo 1 and Holo 2 troops, to see how it looks like. Essentially, it boils down to "disguise them as whatever you like of the same Size", so you could even disguise the Kanren as three Karakuris (in generic), but with the Kanren using the Perimeter weapons or the Advance Deployment gives the shell game away (the most used version is,as you say, disguising the kanren as another kanren).
Regarding holo, I think it's best to have at least 2 courtesy lists : one showing what you want to look like if you play first and one if you play second While it is not truly private information, I find it a good idea to agree on terrain rules like this before the deployment : - How does the door/elevator works - Can you see through the differents holes in the walls, between stair's steps... or not ? - Is there some special terrain rules During deployment, if some cover seems "just high enough" to provide cover to your deployed trooper, it's also a good idea to discuss it with your opponent. PS : That's not the correct quote of the other opinion : it is : camo marker may have a group (troopers : yes, mine and ambush : no) but their group is rendered private because they are in the camo marker status
It's not the hackable trait or what programs that they're targetable that's causing the issue, it's the fact that your opponent is as i understand it allowed to know which programs they are equipped with regardless of whether they're in a ZOC or not. Which if they're not actually a hacker technically they have no programs and you are supposed to in some way provide your opponent with this information according to RAW during deployment. The problem is the courtesy list does not volunteer this information about the hacking programs that the model has available to it. So you will have to verbally inform your opponent about it, which is a big red flag and gives the game away which is personally why I would never play it this way, seems to be completely against the intent of holo projectors in general to have to give away this information without your opponent in some way needing to work for it.
The full courtesy list from Army includes the Hacking Programs, and should include it if a Holo trooper is pretending to be a Hacker of the relevant type. So there shouldn't be any verbal issue.
What? No! The courtesy list already informs of what your opponent knows about that holo unit. If you chose it to look like it has no hacking device, then that's it, until YOUR holo'ed troop enters the enemy's Hacking Area. Until then, whatever is on the list is what the enemy knows. So for example, let's assume a Kanren has a profile with KHD and another with AHD (I have no idea if that's the case right now). So, if you chose a AHD for your Kanren and show him as AHD in the courtesy list, that's what your opponent has. Right now I have a page with all the programs listed from the Army (I created a list with a H+, KHD, AHD, etc...) for fast reference (and Ink and Paper savings!), but I prefer to use Captain's Spud Hacking Helper (easy to find googling it), so I have no issue letting my opponent check programs if he needs.
Exactly this. You say what it's supposed to be. And checking Army, it asks you specifically to decide what your Holo troops will show up as on your courtesy list.
Actually, does that fix the problem? Do you not need to volunteer the fact that the holo hacker who isn't actually a hacker has no programs or am I misunderstanding that? I was under the impression that the fact that the pretend hacker doesn't have programs is open information.
It's not, that's part of the joy of the Holo skill/equipment. It only comes up when someone enters your ZoC.
How do I get the courtesy list in Army to print hacking programs? They only show up in the private print-out for me.
Probably have to manually make a private list that mirrors your courtesy list then print the equipment page off that.
Maybe something like : Print page 1 with your true courtesy list, then replace your holo trooper by the one he masquerade as and print page 2
Create a list with the hackers you use (AHD, KHD, H+, H, EVO) and print it as private in PDF using Chrome. Then go to the PDF and print in paper only the page(s) with programs. Done.
Edit: I don't actually have to quote everyone, now do I -.-;; So basically, it's not actually part of the Courtesy List and I don't actually have to bother with it unless my opponent doesn't know what, for example, an "EI Hacking Device Plus" does, and I think the list would help in giving them the information.
Nope, not really, but it's a little fishy if I ask you about what programs have that figure, you say it's a hacker plus, but cannot tell me the programs he can use because there is no list XD (avoidable if you never print the programs list, using instead the hacking helper online)
Well, to counter that I'd say that it's a bit fishy for you to demand to see part of my private print-out instead of looking up the device on the wiki, hacking helper or in the rulebook :) That said, I only print the hacking list if it fits on the same paper as the gun ranges. I don't find the hacking list useful (I'd find it more useful if programs were listed per device instead of having the device be a trait of the program), but I do use the gun ranges list.
