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VIRD and the Potential State of Vanilla

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by TanakoSkyler22, Nov 28, 2018.

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  1. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    After a long self-imposed exile of sorts (mostly due to life but also needing a break here), I kind of wanted to broach the subject of how Varuna might affect vanilla PanOceania to come. While I plan to play Varuna in-depth and write up a tactica for them, I think there is three outcomes I can think of that will affect vanilla:
    • Vanilla gets a significant buff and moves up a few power tiers in my opinion, regardless if VIRD is good or not.
    • Vanilla does not change much, only getting some new options but does not cover glaring weaknesses.
    • Varuna becomes PanO's 'ISS', in the sense that the sectorial has a lot of more options that makes it more attractive and overshadows the vanilla.
    The second outcome I do not think is likely. This is due in part that the spoiled profiles and loadouts I think are going to find a place in most of our lists. Someone hinted to me that Varuna is getting profiles exclusive to said sectorial, which makes me fear that Varuna might overpower vanilla while the vanilla faction itself does not get a boost.

    To note: I am no way trying to be negative in any manner or rain on our parade, I just want to bring up the topic that can be discussed if possible.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    It's going to be good for Vanilla.

    Helots and Zulu Cobra give us Camo troopers at pretty great prices, this is something completely new to PanO and significantly expands our toolbox, having another KHD also frees up the Hexa as an assault piece with a SWC weapon.

    Patsy brings in more interesting stuff, an HI specialist with SMG who can use the Fusilier Lt.'s Order for herself? Yes please.

    Echo Bravo brings us a non-hackable AD specialist that isn't the Cube Jager, the Red Fury is also less SWC hungry than the Sikh's Spitfire.

    We already know how awesome Kamau HMGs are as a switch hitter.

    There's also the MO revamp to consider. The Hospitaller Doc was already one of my favourites due to him being a CC beatstick, specialist, and BS14 multi rifle, and now it's even cheaper with a better CCW.

    Santiagos bring a 3rd KHD with Tinbot! Sepulchres bring CoC or FD lvl2, both of which are super handy.

    Yeah, Vanilla has it good!
     
  3. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    That is very true, though I did want to have Varuna to be the main focus. This mostly is due in part to Varuna presenting us with more options we did not have before. That said, I do not deny that MO will probably gives us a wider berth of new options to choose from.
     
  4. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Vanilla is great with the boosts theyve been getting

    2 TR HMGs and a Nuerocinetic Decoy/Lmtd Camo mini go a long long way for making up for the defencive power of a link
     
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Even at AVA1 the ZC and Helots already bring a huge amount to Vanilla. It's going to be hard not taking them in every list.

    Patsy and the EB will both be more of a sometimes food, but they'll certainly have their places in the right list.

    The other parts of Varuna like Fusiliers, the Cutter, Kamau, and Croc Men are already popular staples in Vanilla anyway.

    I think the Varuna ORCs are the only thing that won't become common in Vanilla as 1) Competition for HI is already huge, 2) Being in the mixed link is a huge source of the ORC's power , and 3) It's rumoured that Varuna will have ORC profiles that won't be available to Vanilla.
     
  6. Titus

    Titus Varuna Beach Commando

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    Is it already known that helots will be available in vanilla? If so, Joanne will be even more attractive now.
     
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Yep, they actually previewed the Vanilla profile that has AVA 1, which VIRD ups to 3.
     
  8. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    Part of me thinks that they are trying to limit how much irregular orders PanO could get in vanilla since Joan exists. Let alone a lot of great attack pieces...
     
    colbrook likes this.
  9. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Even without Joan the Helots are still amazeballs.
     
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  10. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    Indeed. I am just pointing out that with her Inspiring Leadership, she can help make lists a lot more optimized.

    That said, the rumored CoC profile on the Sepuchre Knights could make Joan 2.0 worth taking as a lieutenant option more often. Though want to see if they do any changes to her.
     
  11. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    V2 is already pretty bloody solid as an effective 3W BS15 Spitfire with a 6" Cautious Move/Move+Shoot.

    The only thing I'd really like to change in her is either EXP CCW on the Lt profile, or DA CCW on all of them.
     
  12. TanakoSkyler22

    TanakoSkyler22 Varunan Diplomat

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    True, but I mean she was less likely to take due to a lack of a decent CoC option outside of Sighn. But that might be me so used to having CoC enabling much more aggressive lieutenant options to play with in my other armies I play.
     
  13. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    All the Pano Sectorials overshadow generic Pano. And with what we already know, VIRD Is going to be much the same. This isn't to say Generic Pano won't get a boost from VIRD but it won't be enough to change the fact that playing Pano sectorials is often case going to be optimal.
     
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  14. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    As Sectorial Only profiles become a thing, I would be cautious about the loadout that Vanilla will get from the KotHS.
     
  15. Pyra

    Pyra Warmongering Potatoe

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    I think that new profiles from Varune will lift up vanila PanO a lot. Zulu Cobra with KHD will allow deploying fighting oriented Hexas, EchoBravo is nice and cheap anti-tag/HI platform.
     
    barakiel likes this.
  16. Superfluid

    Superfluid Welcome to Svalarheima

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    When I read Vanilla in my mind I substitute it for Joan Sectorial.

    And to that end I welcome all the new changes. Stuff getting cheaper and getting new unique profiles can't not increase the objective power of Vanilla.

    Where it stacks up against Vanilla Nomads, Ariadna, Combine or Haqq,is another thing.
     
  17. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    Very much this, like @Death said, but in the moment you start using Joan like @Superfluid it all changes, it becomes super strong.
    I started with NCA, try Joan like a pet project and then got addicted.
    I was going to go 2019 VIRD exclusive, but the combination of all this things makes it hard, the buff is really huge.

    Things coming to Joan Sectorial (AKA. Vainilla), because everything here will be analyzed around how it works with her.

    Helots: anyone remember the time before the tech-bee?, when the Bounty Hunters were irregular and it was standard to run a Sniper ABH (use to be 14 points i think) with a Warcore? it was a cheap aro piece that feed you a regular order, now we got CHEAPER piece that aro BETTER and has camo/decoy......... She even brings her own swc if you want to get fancy with who to choose, this is amazing in too many levels

    Zulu Cobra: it was a regular practice to get a Hexa khd, not that much for the anti hacking but because you need a HD for the rems and this one has camo. Now for only one point more we get another one that can start farther ahead, has a breaker (the combi in a 27 point model was depressing) and release your AVA1 Hexa to be used as a MSR (one of the big plus of NCA was to be able to use both). Going from TO to normal camo is not even a big deal, after some games its normal to deploy the token for the extra order because the combi is a terrible gotcha aro surprise.

    Echo Bravo: ITS9 had a lot of exclusion zones, to the point that last one time i went with NCA only because i needed a good AD and vainilla options are just depressing, uninspiring and to be hones garbage, best one we got was the Cube Jager and thats saying something.
    Comparing the EB to the Garuda (amazing unit) i think we are not loosing that much in the killer profile (RedFury & Spitfire), and in all the other ones it actually comes ahead by a big margin. This unit alone makes the opponent go from "he is playing vainilla, i´m safe from AD surprises" to "you are not going to deploy that damn parrot and then blast all my cheerleaders again, right?".

    KotHS: whoever didnt try to rush an alpha with a Spitfire Pacemaker doesn't know what he is loosing in life. I hazard to guess that even loosing the auxbot AND 4 inch deploy AND the extra 2 inch move..... this is going to be even MORE fun. Think of him as our version of the Daofei but with the mine cleaning capabilities of a Kanren and the SF shuffle trick done with high BS and ARM.

    Montesa Knight: closest thing we got before was the 23pt Magister, but when the move turns to 8 you can flank and shoot in one order instead of move-dodge+move-shoot, even throw in mimetic and 2 BS to ensure that you win the FtF. the fact that he can flank during a coordinated with such easy its incredible.

    Joan sectorial became much more competitive, or will become much more competitive tomorrow when the update drops.
     
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  18. Commoner1

    Commoner1 Well-Known Member

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    If vanilla gets Ava 2 on the Helots it will be in a very good spot with Joan Lt.

    The combination of Zulu Cobras, Helots and Auxilias should give vanilla much better defensive options than before. Their offense was already good enough with their selection of TO units, TAGs and HI and didn't need a buff. So I might actually go back playing vanilla now. :-)
     
  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    Zulu Cobras and Limited Camo Helots also function nicely with Acon Regular Minelayers.

    2 mines, 2 auxbots and a neurocinetic trooper is quite good defense at 65 points.
     
  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, the Zulu Cobra and Helots are ava 1 in generic Pano.
     
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