Hi all, I finaly managed to build a varuna list for N4. The intent is to be able to have a solid balanced list that can deal with most adversary and be efficient on all types of mission. --Group 1-- Fusillier Lieutenant Fusillier Paramedic Fusillier Hacker Kamau MSR Kamau MSR Fusillier Squalo HMG / GL -- Group 2-- Croc man Forward observer Machinist + palbot Fugazi Pathfinder Bulleteer Heavy Shotgun Buleteer Spitfire -- 299 pts -- 6 swc -- What is your bare thoughts on this list? How do you find it and what are its advantages and drawbacks? What about replacing one Kamau MSR by a Croc man MSR?
To have nearly balanced orders on the 2 group containing either attack piece or a piece that can grab objectives. However, I am not sure that it is a good choice. Group redistribution advices are welcome.
There are a few things going on in the list that I'm not just sure about in N4. At the very least though, I'd try to get to 15 Orders. VIRD desperately needs them.
The list has one lieutenant order, 13 regular order and one irregular. Could you precise your thoughts?
You want 15 Troopers. The Lt order and Tac Aware order don't count in this figure. Balanced groups don't make sense here because the strength of the attack pieces isn't balanced. The increases in the power of a piece with order count aren't linear, they get additionally stronger with each additional order. If you go first with this list, your Squalo will only have 6 orders. If you rearrange combat groups, you can guarantee that it has at least 9.
Which one will you recommend to move to combat group 1 then? If i had to put two more order, i ll have to remove troops for cheaper ones. I am not sure the one to sacrifice as they all have some kind of usefullness in the list. What do you think is worthless?
So you can get at least two more Regular Orders into the list. He's saying you should. I'd ditch that Bulleteer with shotgun and grab a regular Fusilier (for Fireteam redundancy) and another Fugazi. That will, at least, bring you up to 14 orders + your extra from the Squalo.
Just from looking at that list I can guess that this is a list built out of a few boxes, trying to stay as true as is practical to the needed models. I'll try to account for this assumption in my analysis. It'll be solid for play in small local tournaments and casual games, but I'll echo the sentiment from everyone else that you want at least the Squalo's group at full capacity and ideally a full 15 orders, if you can manage it. Keep a small group 2 for the Machinist's use and to fill the Squalo's group later in the game and you should be fine. The obvious advantages you have with that list are a very resilient Core link with excellent gunners and plenty of redundancy, a tough Squalo to carry your offense, and an adequate yet safe investment into objectives thanks to the speed of the Pathfinder and Squalo and the Croc's Hidden Deployment. Its weaknesses are Hacking-based attacks and defenses (you've got plenty of Repeaters and Hackables but only one Hacker, who is bar none the worst in the game in terms of quality and your only active defense in this area) and being quite vulnerable to anything that gets in close, especially troops with DTWs like Flamethrowers. In terms of objective coverage, you're fairly good, but will have difficulty with some Classified Objectives; namely the ones requiring you to heal a Wound (a Fusilier Paramedic with lots of Light Infantry won't be reliable), win two CC combats (your best bets are beating up targets Stunned by your Flash Pulses, or dicing off against weak targets with the Squalo) and taking MI or HI into the enemy's side of the board (you have none). This is generally fine, as it's unlikely you'll have to do any of these thanks to the Classified Objective selection mechanic. If you're trying to win tournaments and price isn't an object, definitely listen to the others who've posted above and try to get more cheap REMs like Fugazis and some extra Fusiliers (or proxy them). High order counts are particularly important for PanO in general because of the lack of shortcuts and tricks in the faction; you must typically walk and shoot your way from the DZ to the scenario objective over the course of the game, which drains many more orders than most other approaches. I'd recommend checking out the stickied TAG primer at the top of the PanO subforum too. It's outdated, but still has some good tips that you'll want to know when driving a Squalo list.
Thanks @AdmiralJCJF. I thought the new fireteam duo capability of the bulleteer could bring something interesting. I ll try your suggestion. Thanks a lot @SpectralOwl for your analysis. I am not doing any competitive tournament for time being. In fact, I do have a lot more minis in my collection. I also have read a lot and tried to build a theorical view of what can help me in games. The list reflects my wish to put in the list the stuff I think will be solid or will bring something to the game or to the tactic i wish to employ. I suffer from a lack of play practice that surely is reflected into my list building.
The previous posts do a good job of summarizing the points I would make myself. I think the individual units you've included are excellent. I worry a bit about some of the defensive gaps in the list, but I don't think that's really a dealbreaker as far as you taking this list and putting it on the table. I do believe that more orders will work to your benefit though. Let us know how it goes, if you get a chance to play soon!
Here's the kind of thing I would be considering myself: That probably still wants some tweaking of the groups, but captures the kind of build you could run with if you wanted to get good use out of the concepts you are building towards with the Croc Sniper instead of a second Kamau.
Interesting build @AdmiralJCJF I am wondering what brings the fusillier forward observer and how you use it? And also the zulu cobra is it a decent piece. It will be used merely for its breaker rifle or its ARO towards hackers, as it has already camo rule, am i right?
Fusilier FOs aren't quite the ARO machines they once were, but a Flash Pulse is still a good option to have available for halting an attack run. They are, obviously, also specialists and offer the potential to do some Classified Objectives, and I like to have my options covered there. But I'm also a fan of the Deployable Repeaters, and I've often found them surprisingly useful (especially combined with a Hacker in the Fireteam and one out). The Zulu Cobra is an all-purpose specialist for missions, good light combat unit, and anti-Hacking all rolled into one package. I'd always want something like that on the table, especially if I have a high value unit like a TAG to protect. A Camo skirmisher like that, especially deployed up where it will be covered by the hard ARO of the linked Kamau, is always useful. Actually, you could even rebuild that list above by cutting the Bulleteer, adding two Helot Camo LRLs and a PalBot for the Trauma Doc, pulling the Fugazi from Group 1 to Group 2 and putting the Machinist and Trauma Doc up into Group 1 instead. That would give you a dedicated ARO Group 2 which you don't care about losses from to act as a screen for your Group 1 active combat and mission component. Then you stick out a Fugazi covering one angle up to the Kamau, and layer the Croc Sniper to cover the same lane (and another angle direct onto the Kamau if you can) and ambush whatever moves up to take out the "easy ARO".
Thanks all, it gives me enough to think again my list. And even build another one without the Squalo and with 15 orders. My first intent for using the squalo was its durability and quite efficient speculative weapon option as also being a great attack piece. But perharps it wil be more efficient using another direct attack piece such as the fireteam duo buleteers and use a fusillier grenade launcher within the defensive core fireteam. Food for mind
If you want to use the Bulleteer as a key attack piece I'd make sure to run an EVO Mulebot, so you can use supportware to give it Marksmanship. It's not what it once was, but it's still a significant shift in its offensive potential. Don't write the Squalo off, it's a solid attack piece, has defensive potential (especially for scenarios which include saturation zones or tables with forested areas) and the Grenade Launcher is a useful option. But if you want to lean into it I'd look at investing in forward repeaters (Peacemakers and the Croc Man FO with Deployable Repeaters) and a decent Hacking presence so you can Spotlight targets and a Clipper to do Smart Missile fire as well.
That was an intent of my list to spotlight with the fusillier hacker. With the 4 REMs moving to decisive places and the Croc Forward Observer deployed repeaters i could have a good map covering. While everyone else hiding in my deploy zone, the Squalo with its +3 to its speculative fire and +2 to damage will shoot down a lot of things behind walls during 2 turns.
I also agree that Peacemaker, Croc FO, and two Fusilier Hackers are good staples for that setup. They're also just generally useful units too... The role they fill is helpful beyond firing with the Squalo. but the Squalo is obviously a good way to make that Spotlight actually feel threatening.
Having see this in action from the point of view of the defender (one of our locals is running Vanilla Nomads and leaning heavily into Guided Missile Launcher) you probably want more than the one Hacker if you want it to come off reliably. Just a Fusilier Hacker trying to Spotlight is likely to chew through a lot of orders. Our local Nomad was using three Hackers, all better than that, and Coordinated Orders to ensure he got the Spotlight off. If I was going to lean into that side of things I'd probably build something like this:
Very interesting list @AdmiralJCJF. I ll miss one fusillier hacker and one clipper for running it but i can proxy them easily. Why 2 fusillier hacker and a kamau hacker? In the same spirit as your local vanilla nomads with coordinated order?