1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Varnishing

Discussion in 'Miniatures' started by Varsovian, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    Guys, could I ask you for some advice on mini varnishing?

    So far, I haven't been varnishing my minis - but recently, I've read that it's something one should do. Because the paint job can be damaged when handled with dirty or sweaty finger during playing etc. On the other hand, I've also read that there are downsides to it?

    I've looked up some varnishing videos on Youtube and one thing I've learned that varnishing really changes the way the finished mini looks. Gloss varnish gives minis a shiny look I really don't like - and also increases the colour contrast on the paint job. Meanwhile matte varnish dulls the colours - and, as I've heard, can really take out the shine of metallic paint. And in general, there's also this problem with the possibility of frosting...

    So, my question is: is varnishing really necessary? Also, what type of varnish is it better to use: gloss, matte, satin (Vallejo has something like that)? Finally, can you apply varnish by brush? I don't own an airbrush - and spray varnishes would be a logistic problem (going outside, waiting for proper weather etc.)...
     
  2. LaughinGod

    LaughinGod Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Yeah, you should probably do 1 coat of varnish at least. It shits on the paintjob that is true, but I dillute it with water and then apply it with 0.3 nozzle airbrush very lightly. I use vallejo satin varnish for NMM parts and mat varnish everything else. If you paint with TMM then you can use gloss varnish on those parts, if you apply it lightly you won't notice a difference.
     
    Golem2God likes this.
  3. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    Hmmm. What does NMM and TMM mean?

    Also, can you apply varnish with an ordinary brush?
     
  4. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    There are brush on varnish like in the vallejo range. I prefer aerosol or airbrush ones. Check out Testors Dullcoat or AK Interactive Matt Varnish.
     
    Golem2God likes this.
  5. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    I think I'd prefer to use a brush...

    Is it true that it's better to make a few coats of varnish? And that if paint the first coat with gloss varnish, then applying a second coat of matte varnish removes the gloss? I've read people do that, as gloss varnish protects the best...

    Also, I've read it works the other way around, too? If you use matte varnish, then gloss varnish, the shine returns?
     
  6. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    NMM = non-metallic metal = using non-metallic paint to paint the sheen etc. in a way that it looks metallic
    TMM = true metallic metal = using actually metallic paint, possibly + glazing and other techniques to enhance the already metallic effect

    As for varnish, I use gloss then matte. If you have a decent matte/satin varnish from a spray can, you can skip the gloss stage.
    And yes, gloss over matte can bring most of the shine, but not always (it might not work with stuff like totally transparent elements). For re-shining metals, I'd recommend satin, gloss is too strong and will have a toy-like effect.

    BTW, you're not gonna find Testors in stores, you want Model Master[s?] which is the same stuff, just rebranded. But Vallejo make a decent varnish that can be brushed on and doesn't require separate stuff for thinning/brush cleaning like MM does. Either way Martola or Mirage are your go-to local stores for modeling supplies.
     
    gru6y likes this.
  7. descrii

    descrii Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    138
    What about spray-on enamel, like Krylon matte finish? I've used that in the past and been satisfied with it, and it's not lacquer so it may not be as potentially damaging.
     
  8. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    If I may, another question: does varnishing destroy washes? I use Vallejo washes and I they are water-based. I've heard that varnishing can remove washes that aren't water-resistant...

    Also, how many varnish coats would you recommend?
     
  9. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    Generally speaking two thin coats is better to do than one thick one as a universal rule. I spray my varnishes because it's way faster and easier and I've never had any problems. Even then, I just do small dusting of varnish via a spray can, some people can go crazy overkill on it. I've never had any issues with varnishing over a wash, brush or spray.
     
  10. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    1,335
    Normally all matte varnishes are the gloss one plus matting agent. Satin is the same, but not so much agent. You can mix matte and gloss to achieve different satins; premixed is just faster if that is the exact look you want. Always speaking of the same brand and range (Vallejo has acrylic and urethane, beware), don't wet mix water acrylic gloss with alcohol acrylic matt or enamel one (it may work, or it may go really bad... the more different they are, the riskier).

    Frosting can happen when you disturb the varnish, because (for example, but not limited to) you go over a half dry place twice or the brush is starting to dry, dust or humidity in the air (for airbrush and spray ones), or the matting misbehaves (shake the bottle before, then let bubbles settle a bit). That is the reason for "gloss one or more coats, then matte", you reduce the risk of the matting agent. Thin coats better is because some don't dry fully transparent if too thick, but you want a reasonable thickness. Also when you handle the miniature, skin oils cover the matte and make it shiny, so it's not clear if you really removed it (and see the gloss) or are seeing the full stack (gloss, matte and oil), but then "everyone" says matte is weak.

    Water based is one thing, water reactivable is another. Some washes become water resistant once the dry, others stay soluble (just like watercolor painting). Test in a piece of plastic first.
     
    WolfofWinter likes this.
  11. Shingen

    Shingen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    189
    And as rule of thumb, no matter what you use, always let your minis fully dry (like even 24h if you use acrylic paints, much more for any oils/enamels) before applying any varnish.


    If you’re decided to go with brush-on varnish, try Army Painter’s Anti Shine. I had good experiences with it, it is easy to use and gives pretty constant effects.
     
    Golem2God and jherazob like this.
  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,428
    Likes Received:
    5,385
    Non Metallic Metallic -> refers to paint in a way that looks metallic, without using metallic colors.

    Use matte varnish, always. And yeah, varnishing is a great idea to avoid chrome patches showing up, it also provides some protection against impacts against the floor...
     
  13. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    385
    So, you advice against using gloss or satin varnish? But other people on this thread mentioned using satin for metallic parts... Hmmm...

    Guys, if you were to use different varnishes for different parts of the models, which varnish would you use for faces and hair?

    Also, what about bases and scenery? Do bases decorated with rocks, sand etc. need varnishing? What about all this stuff like consoles, cars etc.?

    BTW. Wouldn't gloss varnish be good for simulating glass?
     
  14. jherazob

    jherazob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    In general, what people tend to do is to give the whole minis a layer of gloss varnish, followed by a layer of matte to kill the shine. Here's an explanation of why it works (unlike the idea that "gloss is unequivocaly stronger than matte"), this link has so much information that should answer many of your questions.

    As for using different varnishes for different parts, the general tendency is to end with matt, as having shiny figures tends to make them look like cheap chinese knockoff toys. The obvious exception is things you want to leave glossy, like lenses, gems, anything liquid or goopy, insectoid exoskeleton armor, etc. Now we have technical paints that automatically cover many of these needs without having to add a layer of gloss varnish at the end (like that Citadel one for blood, for example) so this may not be needed in most of your figures. Have in mind to add any of these effects at the end so that matte varnish doesn't kill the shine there (i learned this the hard way).

    In general include the base in the varnishing stages, having also in mind the tip of not killing the shine of anything you want glossy like water puddles with the matte varnish, do the special effects after that.

    As for terrain, many times the material itself will make this generally unnecessary. If you use acrylic sheets for windows, they already look like glass and are generally resistant so there wouldn't be a need for varnishing it. But in general terrain has it's own rules, as the sizes and quantities make it in general a bad idea to use the same things you use with minis. For example, grass flock tends to be fixed at the end with watered down white glue instead of varnish, it's much cheaper to use in bulk for whole tables.
     
    xagroth, JetMidget and gru6y like this.
  15. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    2,460
    The most important piece of advice: Very few people will offer to pay for the consequences if you fuck up because of their advice. Take everything with a grain of salt, test what you can afford to, don't do what you can't afford to fail and you're not sure of.

    It is. IIRC Neuromotor had some Nomads with gloss helmets/drone heads, looked appropriately shiny.
     
    #15 Pierzasty, Jan 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
    WolfofWinter and jherazob like this.
  16. Shingen

    Shingen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    189
    And one more thing – don’t overthink paining. It is skill not kwolege after all, you can’t learn it from any tutorials or forums, you need to try it, and again, and again… until you get what is best for you.


    Don’t be afraid to fuck up, just buy some acetone (smells) or Durostrip (pricier), and you’ll be able to repeat paining indefinitely, until you get results that are satisfying for you.
     
    jherazob likes this.
  17. Balewolf

    Balewolf It's all opinion

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    540
    One of the things I've noticed most after satin varnishing is losing the mid-tones. When doing non-metallic metals I would spend a lot of time trying to shape areas with them and the varnish would really tone them down to where they weren't worth pushing anymore. When painting with true metallic metals, you'll notice matte making them look much more dull, but that can be a good thing as well, depending on what you want. You'll be able to see how the varnish affects your models after one or two tests. After that, it's just adjusting how you paint to get the effects you want.

    I varnish mine with a satin and then matte. I haven't had any issues with chipping or crud on them after I've done it, and I don't feel like they've been washed out or anything. It gives a nice coating/sheen that isn't overpowering or glossy, but seems a little cartoonish (think WoW).
     
    WolfofWinter and jherazob like this.
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation