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Various Move Questions

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Erbent, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    I had a discussion in my local gaming group chat about the Lean Out and Prone interactions, by trying to solve this I also got some doubts about other Movement skills.

    First of all - I do not intend to cause a large discussion about these questions, that already sort of happend in my playgroup's chat, but rather I would like to know if these questions had already been resolved, or even better - to get a clarification from someone at CB on how this all is actually intended to work.

    Big question number one - can a model declare Lean Out while being Prone and in base to base with a parapet of, let's say, 1" high and less than 1" thick, cancelling Prone state as a part of the Move so that condition of "it cannot be thicker than 1 inch or higher than half the height of the trooper who Leans Out." is met?

    It looks like you can turn Prone state on/off when declaring Lean Out, but there is an arguement that you don't actually declare Move, and it is just the part of Lean Out declaration.

    1)Lean Out is an Entire Order comprised of Move + BS Attack. so I tought that as a part of Move you can turn Prone state On or Off, but:

    1 - from Prone rules: When a trooper declares the Short Movement Skill Move, its player may indicate that it will go Prone.

    But it is a bit different in the General Movement Rules:

    2 - By declaring Move, a trooper may go Prone or revert back to the Normal standing state at the start of his Movement at no cost. Remember that troopers have reduced mobility while Prone.

    Bonus question - if a model uses Lean Out, would it just be placed on the other side of the parapet for LoF purposes, or would it work like a normal vaulting move over some sort of short wall - placing the silouette as if it moved over the parapet?



    Big question number two - at the same time is more and less obvious than the first one:

    How Prone state is interacting with such skills as Jump / Climb / Cautious Movement / Dodge?


    First of all - they share this: "must follow the General Movement Rules as well as the Moving and measuring sidebar, both of which are explained in the Move Common Skill rules." which kind of makes me think of them as just a speciale types of Move.

    Then we have this, from Prone state - "While Prone, troopers cannot Jump or Climb."

    This seems to indicate that a model cannot be jumping/climbing and in the Prone state at the same time, but maybe the model can declare Jump/Climb and cancel the Prone state at the start of the order so that this move would be legal? I do realise this most likely isn't the case, because neither of these skills are "Move", so let's move on.


    Next up - Cautious Move and reactive turn Dodge, here we obviously don't have the restriction about Jump/Climb, but those still are not 'Short Movement Skill Move', but for the Dodge specifically there is this: "a successful Dodge allows the user to Move".



    From the looks of it all - a model can only change from or to Prone:

    1)When declaring Short Movement Skill Move
    2)When successfully using Dodge in reactive turn

    And that's it, right? Maybe on a Lean Out too, but I'm not sure.

    And the Jump/Climb/Cautious Movement all share the Movement label and even refer to the skill Move: "must follow the General Movement rules as well as the Moving and measuring sidebar, both of which are explained in the Move Common Skill rules." so it is a bit confusing.

    Thank you in advance to anyone who would will to spend their time to explain all of this!

    P.S. I'd like to tag @ijw and @HellLois for this, I think they would be able to give the most clear and concrete answer on this.
     
    Dr. Nik and JoKeR like this.
  2. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    See the cancellation clause for the Prone state:
    • A Prone trooper may automatically cancel this state by declaring the Short Movement Skill Move. The player must announce he is cancelling the Prone state when declaring the Short Skill Move. By doing so, the state is cancelled at no cost and the trooper can carry out its Move using its regular MOV and S values.
    What you have is three different passages that say the same thing when combined, they just don't all say it at the same time.

    The ability to be in the Prone state, and declare Jump or Cautious Movement or essentially anything that uses the General Movement Rules (cancelling the Prone state to do so). Links to the previous rules forum:
    http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/...tious-movement/?do=findComment&comment=669423

    You can't be Prone while Jumping, or Climbing, but there's effectively the retroactive timing allowance that you're allowed to cancel Prone to do so.
     
    Erbent likes this.
  3. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot, your reply was very helpful!

    It is great that there is an official answer from CB, but if it would be included in the futer FAQ or at least pinned in solved questions it would be very nice, we even managed to have a discussion in our playgroup about how this works for about an hour or so, mainly because of specifically the 'Short Movement Skill Move' part, so thanks again for clearing this up and digging for an ansver from the old forums.
     
  4. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    I'll just assume you're commenting for the sake of CB and @HellLois and just add a comment on the general situation.

    For what it's worth, the old forum had a non-official FAQ that had been compiled from official staff answers to questions. There's been a fair amount of back-and-forth between CB and the community about the issue, coming down to an authority to make make changes. Because the difference between a FAQ stating what I wrote in my previous post, and editing the rules to say that directly, is just the degree of obfuscation and typesetting involved.
     
  5. Erbent

    Erbent Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you're exactly right. Thanks again for your time, I'll be sure to check the old forums for answers to rules questions too.