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Vanilla vs Sectorials

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by ndeguise, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. ndeguise

    ndeguise Active Member
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    Hey guys,

    I've recently started playing PanO, and am planning on sticking with them for at least the rest of this calendar year (I have too many armies to stay with one permanently).

    I've been reading everything on the forums, and I have found a ton of useful information for the different Sectorials.... I haven't seen much about Vanilla.

    Does anyone play Vanilla PanO? Is there a reason most of the information is about sectorials with little stuff about vanilla? Is Vanilla just not worth it?

    I'd love some feedback from the experts!

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    We have four sectorials to one vanilla, so they tend to crowd it out ;) Vanilla PanO is certainly a viable way to play, it's just that various fireteams, access to Aleph units, and upgrades (like Montesa Tikbalang in MO) draw people in.
     
  3. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    Theres a couple of die-hard Vanilla players here – I am not one of them.

    PanO sectorials allow units to leverage already high BS to greater numbers through the use of links teams. Similarly, greater burst on our already high BS is going to be more important and more effective than what you'd see in other factions. Look at the dreaded Kamau Sniper– absolutely bonkers with a B2 BS16 ARO – underwhelming with a B1 BS13 ARO.
    PanO sectorials also generally include auxiliary units "borrowed" from Aleph and mercs. They fill a lot of holes intentionally left by PanO design ethos. need a high WIP hacker? both Devas and Nagas can be found in PanO sectorials. Need a great Camo infiltrator? Dart can be found in multiple PanO sectorials.

    Finally, Sectorials have a higher AVA of already great units – AVA 3 Helots, AVA T regulars, AVA 3 Zulu Cobra, and AVA 2 Swiss guard are just some notable entries.

    A popular way to play vanilla is to take Joan and load up on irregulars, being sure to use that LT as a coordinated every turn aswell.
     
    barakiel likes this.
  4. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    I think that the "recent" changes introduces new interesting options to vanilla PanO.
    - The new bolt with chain of command (27 points) allows lieutenant to play more aggressive.
    - Varuna sectorial offers new toys to vanilla PanO, specially the zulu with jammer and helot with LRL.
    - The new monstrucker: engineer with WIP 13, climbing plus, chain and drop bears for 13 points.

    These new acquisitions together with the classics Nisses, Joan, Swiss and Krakots makes Vanilla much interesting than before.
     
  5. Dreilide

    Dreilide Well-Known Member

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    That's the exact Vanilla list I've been looking to try. I'm currently learning MO and getting back into the game, but having middling success with them so far. I still haven't mastered link team placement, and it seems like I don't get the mileage out of them that I should be getting, and in that case Vanilla with a heavy emphasis on MO units is looking pretty attractive.

    You can fit all of the above in with the standard Joan orders (Bee/Warcor), and still have room for some secondary attack pieces, drone support, etc. Has anyone had much luck running Vanilla with the new toys? Coordinating orders with Drop Bears between Bolts, Black Friars, Monstruckers, and Locusts sounds great for aggressive midfield control.
     
  6. Hexa

    Hexa TAG pilot

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    I believe mixed (I don't like the term vanilla, so I'm trying to change it) PanO is stronger than any of its sectorials, if just slightly. I'm probably one of the diehard vanilla players mentioned above, although I do occasionally play sectorials

    The mixed faction allows you to take the unit best suited to the role you want, with less restrictive faction weaknesses than in sectorials. Sectorials do sometimes give access to outside troops, but nothing massive in PanO's ones compared to the options in the mixed faction. For example: Nagas are good, but I don't think they're as good as the choice of crocmen, a zulu-cobra, a hexa and krakots for the same roles.

    Increased Availability usually doesn't quite make up for losing other similar units, since spamming a unit is rarely a good idea if you can take similar options with slightly different capabilities. For example: I'd rather take a swiss guard and a Tikbalang than two swiss guards or two Tikbalangs. There are exceptions with arguably overpowered troops like Helots; but even then there are advantages to a Helot, an auxilia and a Regular Minelayer over three helots.

    Fireteams boost weak and middling units' firepower massively, but they're also vulnerable. Having that many troops near eachother makes any assault which gets around the main ARO likely to kill several of them. Fireteams are good, good enough to make sectorials competitive despite their restrictions, but they have weaknesses.
     
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  7. Dyne

    Dyne Well-Known Member

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    Two examples:
    PanO Base
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (+1 | 50)
    FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    CROC MAN (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    PanO Base
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    ZULU-COBRA (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Jammer / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    BOLT (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    REGULAR Hacker (Hacking Device, FastPanda) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    CROC MAN (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #7 Dyne, Jul 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  8. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Generalist has access to a lot of tools and can mix them at will. The difference is that you can't spam one particular set of troops at will and link some of them in order to reach the level of firepower you can meet only on our TAGs or more if you're using MI/HI in FT.
    Most of PanO players are here for firepower and they go in sectorials because it is there that you can have access the most easily to huge firepower. And PanO FTs are dreaded for this, even if, now, the other sectorials tend to dispute us our domination.

    I think that all PanO is at the same level, provided you are open minded enough to play also outside of the box. This gives you possibilities to take your opponent unprepared to what you're going to play.
    At the moment, I'm playing Generalist to relearn the natural strengths of all our units and test some combinations. And, well, it's so much fun and powerful. So funny to take your opponent off guard because they were waiting for a fair fight and you start making AD troopers incoming from everywhere and/or reveal that this Armand wasn't Armand but a full power HI with SWC weapon and CC skills. Spec Ops in generalist are also a lot of fun. Tried the plain ODD+Feuerbach Regular as ARO piece and he has been such a pain for my opponents that I wouldn't have even dreamt it.
     
  9. ndeguise

    ndeguise Active Member
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    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    I'll keep toying around with different lists and see what I can come up with. Glad to see people are at least still considering Vanilla vs sectorials.
     
  10. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    You can still build some fun stuff
    Joan supplying the cheap orders, while taking loads of remotes that can be overclocked for some extra first round fire power.

    Basislist──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]3 JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51) BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23) PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]2 NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34) SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) HELOT MILITIAMAN Submachine Gun, Light Rocket Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 9) JÄGER Submachine Gun + E/Mitter / Pistol, Monofilament CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18) HEXA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 27) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G930F met Tapatalk
     
  11. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Thanks to the CoC Bolt option I've been looking forward to running the Joan V2 Spitfire Lt as an offensive option.
     
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  12. Toalpaz

    Toalpaz Active Member

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    Pan O sectorials are inferior to vanilla, and if you play a Pan O sectorial you don't understand infinity or know how to play the game. Thanks!
     
  13. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    what
     
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  14. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    well this is bait
     
  15. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Bad troll is awful.

    1/10, but only because we're bored enough to reply.
     
  16. Toalpaz

    Toalpaz Active Member

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    Sectorials don't get you anything except make the game harder to win, unless it's a troop like Yuan Yuan that you get access to.
     
  17. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Some days, clicking 'show ignored content' is like unwrapping an awful but endearing christmas gift.

    Today is not one of those days.
     
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  18. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Hunh.

    It’s not often that I have to add someone to the “Ignore” list these days.

    Which makes me think that the primary issue with these Forums can be boiled down to a small handful of users.

    -

    On topic, I think the issue with Vanilla was that it was far too narrow.

    Now there is a wider range of viable builds thanks to a lot of new options and a few key revised ones.
     
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  19. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Really, it's good sometime to come back to Vanilla and discover some profiles that are rarely used in sectorial but really good once the weight of fireteams is out and you just have to use individual power of each troop. Hexa Spitfire, Crocman Minelayer (I think I'll play Croc Men a lot when I'll shift to VIRD just for this profile), EB, Akalis, Crusader Brethren, solo knights...
    It's not only about playing Joan to full power, this isn't optimal everytime, but to have so much diversity that if you're not against playing uncommon tactics, it can pay because you have the full array of options of the faction. While Kamau specialists tend to be left aside in VIRD because you can have Fusiliers and Machinist in their FT, in Vanilla, they are really good as they can fight and take the objective alone for less than 30 points. It's the same with De Fersen. It's easier to feel the full potential of this kind of trooper when there isn't FT around and easy access to support troops from all our faction.
    MO brings its powerful frontline HIs and antimaterial CC weapons with martial arts
    NCA brings Auxbots, CoC, excellent powerhorses (Swiss and Aquila) and -6MODs dreaded troopers
    ASA brings mines, AD troopers and Eclipse
    VIRD brings excellent solo LI and TO infiltrators
    SWF brings good MI and the most resistant TAG humans can field (Avatar is better but costs so much more).
    Take a bit of what you need in there and you'll find out that all those click together really well once used to every units. This can take some time and dedication but it's good to discover the full power of our troopers when they are on their own.
     
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  20. Brokenwolf

    Brokenwolf Well-Known Member

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    Sensor ZC is great for Vanilla. And Vanilla really allows for some unique combinations. Spitfire Joan V2 is amazing for her cost and I am surprised people don't use her more. I also like the missile launcher FK as an ARO pieces.