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Vanilla haqqislam list building tips

Discussion in 'Haqqislam' started by Challenger, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. Challenger

    Challenger Active Member

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    Hey guys, ramah player here

    not sure where to go in the big world of vanilla list building. theres so many options its daunting. My next game in particular is going to be on Capture and Protect, but i'd love any general haqq list building tips especially with all the great ramah profiles that have come out like the Nahab
     
  2. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Saladin/kasym, Maggy, 1+ Fiday/Al-Djabel, Mutts, 3x infiltrating Daylami w/pf and then flavor to taste with your favorite rtf units.

    Hold Maggy back to protect with supporting ARO pieces, and capture with one of your Fiday or fast rtf units. Finish them with an s8 TAG rammed down the throat. (You may want an engineer and a khd).
     
  3. jsuso

    jsuso Active Member

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    Put some muttas, they almost always do a very good defensive job, and any MVS 2 troop youlike, they sinergize pretty well with the smoke combo. I would go for the Kawarij mk12 or Mukthar red fury for the offensive, or Djanba HMG for a more defensive long range attacks.
    For capturing you have many options: bikes, paratroopers, Fidays.... The easiest to get on the objective is probably the Fiday, you can deploy them right next to it for free, but need to get some cover to come out alive.
    Another interesing option for capturing would be any fast, resiliant troop like Maghariba, Tariki, Namurr. I used the Ayyar a couple of time for that mision too.
     
  4. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Play to the mission.

    Capture and Protect might as well be Capture the Flag.

    Up to 70% of your total points comes from getting the "flag" from your opponent and keeping it in control of one of your models at the end of the game. 30% comes from keeping him from controlling your "flag" at the end of the game. Control is defined as friendly model in base contact that isn't unconscious/blah/blah/blah.

    So you probably want to put forth some sort of effort on keeping them away from your "flag". How hard you want to fight for it is up to you. But if they can take it if you then shoot them so they don't have it anymore. So revenge killing is just as acceptable as an iron defense that never lets your opponent touch it. You may want to use mines to slow them down or ward them off. You may want an MSV2 or two covering it so they can't use smoke. A big CC guy may make it hard for some types to approach. Just remember that your defenders may need defending themselves or you risk them rolling up your coverage and taking it. Your Data Tracker could be back here, because someone else can steal the flag and bring it back to you to hold.

    On the offense you have a variety of flavors. You can just murder them as much as possible to remove their orders to function with and the pieces they wanted to use. You may want to do a ninja attack and have something fast/close run up, grab, and flee! But what's your covering fire to prevent pursuit? They only need to kill the carrier(s) to void all that effort. And points. You may just want to seize their "flag" at the last possible moment and if you keep yours, you score six points (Major Victory) and hold them to zero.

    Then re-read the thread about all the unit suggestions and figure out which ones fit into how you want to approach it.
     
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  5. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Here's a fun little LI list I ran for C&P earlier this week - simple, fun, 13 orders now with Tac Aware TAGs.
    Capture and Protect
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    KASYM BEG Lieutenant (Regular, Impetuous) Chain Rifle, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (+1 | 26)
    MAGHARIBA MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 78)
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. ()
    KRAKOT RENEGADE Red Fury, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1 | 24)
    BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    FARZAN (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31)
    MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 37)
    NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    GHULAM Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)
    KHAWARIJ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 28)

    6.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  6. Challenger

    Challenger Active Member

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    Hey guys, update on how things went and some more questions :)

    Thanks for the advice @oldGregg @Papa Bey and @jsuso ! this was the list i ran, it was similiar to many of your recommendations except without a maggie. I dont own one of them or anything even remotely close to proxying that huuuuge base haha

    Haqq the world──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FIDAY Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 31) BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) NAHAB Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun + E/Mitter, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 30) DJANBAZAN HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35) TARIK MANSURI Spitfire, Nanopulser, Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (1.5 | 55) GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]6 [​IMG]4 MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8) KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    i went up against an O-12 list that was kinda like:

    O-12──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]4 ALPHA Lieutenant (Strategos L2) 2 Light Shotguns, 2 Nanopulsers / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 26) SIRIUS Red Fury + 1 SiriusBot / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 29) [​IMG] SIRIUSBOT Heavy Riotstopper / Electric Pulse. (0 | 5) EPSILON MULTI Sniper, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30) BETATROOPER Spitfire, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 41) BETATROOPER Doctor (MediKit) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) GANGBUSTER Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun, MadTrap / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) VARANGIAN Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 12) VARANGIAN Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 12) VARANGIAN Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 12) VARANGIAN Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 12)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1 MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13) KYTTÄ Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) LYNX MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34) 6 SWC | 290 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    Not sure what the last 10pts was, and not sure the exact way the combat groups were set up.


    Table:
    there was 3 long firelanes, left, mid and right hand side. Mid was quite narrow, and moved between two buildings.

    Deployment:
    My ghazi were all up as far as they could go all around the middle-ish. was careful to make sure they didnt get ARO turn 1. my djan set up near the middle, my flanks were covered by daylami (2x stuck their infiltration roll and went to annoying spots). flash pulse watched my flank. Saladin went and hid off to the side in a building.

    My opponent blocked off the left side with mad traps, Varangians sprinkled throughout. right was being guarded by team sirius, any attempt to push down there would enter close range with the heavy riot stopper. His LT found a spot right at the very back of the board where he was guarded by 2 varangians and a monstrucker meaning any fiday attack would not get a chance to plant landmines, and since hes Guard L4 with a biometric visor it was rough odds for both the shotgun (No surprise attack) and the melee (also no surprise).

    my reserve put down the fiday on the middle closer to the flag as well as a nahab centrally, fairly exposed, my idea was to use these two together to grab the flag and run.

    my opponent deployed the multi sniper mimetism guy overwatching a whole heap of the mid to right flank on a long diagonal.

    Turn 1
    Active
    With only 7 regular orders after being command token'd, i had to be careful. I spent 2 moving my djan up onto a box prone where he could light the sniper up. the sniper took only 1 hit, which he passed the save on. he then guts back further into cover out of LoF. He still had a strong overwatch on the flag, so i decided i needed him dead and sent the fiday. the fiday failed to kill him but survived the SMG ARO a varangian took as he had rushed into melee. On my next attack, he went down uncon. i then executed him and completed the classified, unfortunately a gangbuster witnessed this and that SMG ARO in the +0 band killed the fiday. i needed to go for the execution because there was a helperbot right next to the sniper and he would've just got back otherwise

    i rushed a ghazi up the middle to try to provide cover for my stranded Nahab and djan. i moved one ghazi around the right firelane and his TO sniper revealed and killed the ghazi. Not much else happened.

    Reactive
    on his reactive, his spitfire heavy infantry cleaned up my djan, ghazi and nahab all without much effort, he made sure to keep shooting until they were dead so the doctor+ couldnt revive them. he revealed my daylami in a single roll and immobilised one with glue (the bot died to the daylami shotgun) and took another one out with his sniper. he drops several models into suppressive fire around his flag

    Overall at the end of the turn i was down over 110 points


    Turn 2
    Active
    i decide the best way to salvage the game is to play to the objective. my ghazi push out with some smoke grenades dropping them all around the flag, one dies getting the smoke to block the suppression fire betatrooper (i co-ordinated the two of them to move and throw s moke together so he couldnt stop both).

    Tarik then pushes hard, leaping over terrain and arriving at the enemies side of the table. What followed was a disaster of dice. i unloaded on his Monstrucker from 24.1" away and only hit her once, she passed the save. she had thrown a drop bear near the flag. i decide i should use tarik's wounds and move up and dump 4 more shots into her from the good band. she throws another drop bear. at 13s to hit with fat2, i once again only land a single hit. she passes the save. Tarik fails his save from the first mine.

    my rooftop daylami fires down at the mine to clear it, but the monstrucker can see the rooftop daylami and she throws another drop bear. sticking it again. At this point shes out of drop bears. im short on orders, and have no one who can clear the mine. my two options are to dodge her smg + the mine, and then kill her next order, or to try to tank the mine. I decide being so short on orders to tank the mine and dump 4 more shots into her. this time i land only 1 hit again, but she fails the save. Tarik tanks the mine with his 3 arm this time. i pick the flag up and run away, turning my irregular orders to regular allows me to get tarik all the way back to my DZ, which is good considering tarik is also my data tracker.


    Reactive
    with my daylami and ghazi expended, my opponent has a fairly simple time having his betatrooper use climbing+ to attack my dz from the roof, getting to fire down at tarik without anyone else seeing him even with tarik being prone. His red fury team sirius tries to join the attack but is killed by the libertos mine.

    during the attack his beta trooper takes a wound from the libertos defiantly dropping a mine even as he goes down in a hail of bullets, but i lost tarik, a doctor+ ghulam, libertos and my barid hacker in the attack.

    he puts the betatrooper into suppressive fire in a position where he can see my entire deployment zone


    Turn 3
    Active
    at this point i was left with 2 kameels, a fanous and Saladin. due to the baggage rule i was not in Retreat, which is a shame because i would have won if i was in retreat at this point. Saladin stands from behind the wall and tries to have a shootout with the beta trooper, my reasoning being if he won in an order or two through a miracle i might've been able to pick the flag up and maybe drop saladin into suppressive fire

    however saladin was killed, and we called it at this point because all he had to do on his active was to climb the beta trooper down the wall and pick my flag up unopposed


    Things i learned
    • Don't get muddled up on plans and overcommit turn 1. i could've probably killed his gangbuster by moving my fanous within 8", triggering both mad traps, and then hit him with lightning. then my fiday in the exact same circumstances would've cleaned out that sniper, the helperbot (just so no one can see the fiday again) and then re-enter Imp-2 and been more defensive overall and that flank would be wide open to push an attack on the flag through next turn.
    • Fidays have knives, and knives have shock. i should've used that instead of the AP-CCW. it would've saved me an order, i could always execute something for the classified another turn
    • Don't put too many eggs in the basket of even a god like tarik, that run on the flag was pitiful


    My next game against him will most likely be on Supplies

    based on what i learned, i'm probably going to stick to the core of:
    • 4x ghazi
    • 2-3x Panzerfaust daylami
    • at least a fanous rem. im a bit sour about how the kameels lost me the game
    • Liberto minelayer
    • Saladin - hes kinda like 2x orders for 18pts each and by god are regular orders hard to come by
    • a Killer hacker, probably a Barid or Leila

    then changing it up based on what i need:
    • i think i want to try out a hunzacutie, has a lot of utility to try to get those boxes
    • a Tuareg AHD - infiltration and HD is exactly what i need, and my two options for specialist are the hacker or the doc+. i was kinda unimpressed by the doc+ because my opponent kept doubletapping all my pieces
    • if i can afford it, a Hafza HRL seems fun, i can pretend hes a warcor or something

    any other advice for a good Supplies list?
     
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  7. jsuso

    jsuso Active Member

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    Dont worry if you lost, as long as you learn from your error is an useful match. And maybe next time the dice will be more generous.

    Supplies is a mission much more suited for our army, we have a lot of cheap or very affordable midlfielder for taking those crates. Remember that doctors get a +3 to Will and roll to dice when trying to retrieve the crates!

    About the list, if you really want to take a tuareg, at least for this mission you should take the doctor option, because of the bonus. If you want an AHD the al`hawwa is 9 points cheaper, and for what is going to mostly do (hacking and doing objectives) you only lose 1 Will point and the mines, in exchange for a terryfing Borading shotgun! The pair al`hawwa AHD + Hunzakut OA enter almost always on my vanilla list.

    About Saladin, I`m not very fond of him, but I know it a matter os preferences. But why having this:
    Haqqislam
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]1
    SALADIN Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 36)

    0 SWC | 36 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    When you can have this!
    Haqqislam
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]3
    NAFFATÛN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    0 SWC | 36 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    For the same price you have an extra order, your Lieutenant is much less obvious, and you have three nice flamethrower covering your deployment. If your oponent try to hunt your lieutenant, it has to guess and risk a probably much more expensive unit, who is going to burn, and 2 of 3 time it would be for nothing.
    If you really love Saladino, keep playing, what matter is having fun with your favourite units. I recommend then bringing the Farzan Coc just in case (and he can also do objectives).

    Knowing how this mission usually develops, I recommend to bring also a hard hitting paratrooper (ragik spit/shotgun, Nahab red fury) for trying to steal any crate your enemy was able to take. The Fiday wont do for that job, because they would probably die fast(most players get really obsessed with hunting them)

    About the KHD, it depends if you want to be more agressive (Leila) or defensive (Barid). The Barid pairs pretty well with the Hunzakut for area denial, thanks to the repeaters.

    Knowing your preferences, I think I would go for a list like this one:
    Haqqislam
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    NAFFATÛN Lieutenant Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    NAFFATÛN Rifle + Light Flamethrower, Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    DJANBAZAN HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    GHULAM Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
    DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8)
    DAYLAMI (CH: Limited Camouflage, Inferior Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 8)
    TUAREG Doctor Plus (MediKit) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    BARID Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Lightning) Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]3
    HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    NAHAB Red Fury, Nanopulser / Pistol, Viral CC Weapon, Knife. (1 | 36)
    FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    HAFZA Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    FARZAN (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  8. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Saladin is my favourite LT in 300pts games. He is just so much more than it seems - and definitely worth more than 3 Naffatuns! ;)
    WiP 16 gives you bigger chance to win the initiative, and Strategos L3 is really powerful. Your enemy won't be able to put any unit in reserve, and you can take 2 of those! It's really brutal when using Djabel. Or when making the enemy think you do this, and deploy some midfield specialist instead ;)
    Saladin is also quite tough, with ARM BTS 3 and V:NWI, he has nice stats and rarely dies in my battles. To be honest I don't recall more than a few situations when I lost him against some LT-hunting enemy.
    In part because you can hide him - just use Hafza or 2 and Holo them as Sal :) You can also have some CoC, like Farzan, if you wish.

    IMHO he's just the best LT we can have, and maybe the best in the whole game, looking at the points cost and the combos that he creates with our units.


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  9. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I also love Saladin, but kasym might be my favorite. He’s such a monster.
     
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  10. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    My go-to lieutenant for a number of games now has been the Barid with hacking device, usually taken alongside a Shihab HMG and a monstrucker. The package is fairly light in terms of total cost and gives you a powerful offensive and defensive element for low cost and overhead, that still lets the rest of your list fill itself out with strong pieces.

    Saladin is on the list of things to try, though - I've only been playing Haqq on and off for a month or so.
     
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  11. Challenger

    Challenger Active Member

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    Can you explain what makes him such a monster? ive looked his profile over a few times and ive been struggling to understand what makes him so good. What i see is:

    Good
    • Hes really fast, with his impetuous and his lt order alone he can cross the table if he has freedom to mov-mov.
    • smoke grenade launcher means he can lay down smoke significantly better than the ghazis, especially when hes mov 8" and can fire that grenade out to 16" on a +3.
    • +1 SWC for your army, nice
    • if your enemy is a chump at CC, kasym should be able to crush them in a face to face

    Bad
    • not shock immune, so vs a fair amount of attacks dogged wont matter
    • struggles vs anyone competent at CC
    • will have a rough time with warbands with templates hanging around
    • his Panzerfaust is b1, his pistol isnt much better

    i've been really struggling to break into the DZs of people like O-12 when they have 4 varangians, mad traps, other templates etc, and other armies can do similiar stuff with mines.

    How is kasym beg being a monster in your games? To experiment and experience him i'll play him next game i think because i dont want to get hung up on saladin and dismiss the alternatives without trying them!
     
  12. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    I guess to start with what you’ve listed as bad:

    Imo Haqqislam struggles in these areas almost across the board. (Except vs warbands - here we have plenty of other fast troops and infiltrators who can remove the threat). Though shock is definitely a big thing, dogged doesn’t count for nothing. If you’re really worried about him going down you can play him as a more conservative (really good) support piece or you can point and launch him like a fire and forget missile (who already helped your list by granting +1SWC).

    Cc23 with an exploding cc weapon isn’t the worst thing ever. Even units that are considered cc beat sticks will have to be careful around him/treat him as a threat and he’s more than capable of putting some hurt on or locking down a TAG.

    Honestly I’ve gotten the most benefit out of kasym with his speed. That plus smoke means he can pretty much be anywhere on the table to support another attacker or to remove threats from unexpected/advantageous angles. Really though, I don’t think his cc is nearly as bad as you make it out to be. With his spread medium and smoke, he can absolutely hit anyone he wants. When he does, there’s way more units in this game that are worse at cc than kasym, rather than better. He can carve through an order pool like nothing.

    Some things to watch for: The kamau Sniper +team basically shuts him down unless you deploy/move really well and bring an appropriate counter. Haqq has plenty of tools for that job though.


    EDIT: @RobertShepherd the barid is a lot of fun and can be very effective- especially against those players who don’t expect it. Though I will say that you should be wary of nomads/ca etc because they generally have the capacity to casually melt his brain, even if they don’t expect him to be the lt. (You probably know this but PSA for new players reading I guess). You can mitigate this with a second barid (another HD for mind games and support or a khd to be a little stronger) and Leila, but then a substantial amount of your list is leaning into the infowar game.

    I personally love this style of play, but it does open up some additional weakness in Haqq and we’re already a fairly soft faction.
     
    #12 oldGregg, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  13. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    My meta is currently going through a cycle where people think KHDs are overpowered, so nobody takes models vulnerable to KHDs, so nobody takes KHDs, so my liutenant Barid so far has only died in one game out of about a dozen and that's because a ledge was just a little shorter than it needed to be off my causal eyeball at deployment that I should have paid more attention to.

    It's a pretty classic overpredation cycle and I intend to ride the inside of that particular curve for as long as I can :p

    That said, I've also been including a Barid KHD as a very cheap backup element basically to deter that kind of attack. The second BS12 pitcher has also proven surprisingly useful, giving me a cheap bit of Infowar projection that I can use if I need or ignore if I don't.
     
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  14. jsuso

    jsuso Active Member

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    Thats one combination I usually play a lot, but I usually only use the barid for giving MM2 to the Shihab.

    About Saladino, I obviously ser the Manu advantages he gives, but for my playstyle It usually doesnt compensate for the possible troubles. The proliferation of JSA and Shasvastii in my community doesnt exactly help, too

    Enviado desde mi G3121 mediante Tapatalk
     
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  15. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Remember Saladin is a durable repeater. I’ve gotten up to some pretty fun shenanigans with him and a barid in the same list.
     
    #15 oldGregg, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  16. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Repeater, to be more precise :smirk:
     
  17. oldGregg

    oldGregg Well-Known Member

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    Lol yup. Doing a few things and got discombobulated.
     
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  18. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I havn't played Vanilla in a while, but my old go to models where always a Djanbzan HMG for MSV2. The Shock Marksman is a good second choice if you need to save SWC. The Barid is a versatile hacker, the pitcher gives you an easy way to reach across the table without a persistent repeater on the table that your opponent can use against you if you go second. Also a good Lt option. I've found I'll use the Lt order on him. Lastly I would bring 1-2 button pushers. Haqq has a couple options, I would start with any of the following, Al Hawwa, Farazan, Hunzakuts. They are all relatively cheap and do their jobs well.

    The rest of the force is to flavor depending on your mood, The Fiday is a signature piece, but I'l be honest when I our group was relatively new to the game I only played it 20-30% of the time since people hated playing against it. If you want to be a little cheap you can easily add smoke to go with the MSV2 by taking the Muyib or Ghazi.
     
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  19. Challenger

    Challenger Active Member

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    Vanilla Haqq vs Shasvastii on Capture and Protect:

    This game had me run only 1 daylami, i swapped in Saladin, a Muhktar Red fury, Namurr, the farzan swapped out to be a minelayer, and the hafza for a regular hafza to pretend to be Saladin. both bikers came out too, among some other small tweaks.

    The shasvastii list was a blank courtesy list basically. After the game was over i can tell you it was (Constructed from memory so not a perfect recreation):

    Shasvastii Expeditionary Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    10
    SPECULO KILLER (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
    SPECULO KILLER (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
    SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    SHROUDED (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Dazer / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    CALIBAN Engineer Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife, CC Weapon. (0 | 28)
    CALIBAN (Chain of Command) Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife, CC Weapon. (0 | 29)
    NOCTIFER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 24)
    MALIGNOS Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun, Dazer, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)

    5.5 SWC | 291 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Shasvastii turn one:
    So the first Speculo tried to infiltrate into my DZ and failed the roll. the other one rushed for Saladin, the correct Saladin too. However he was discovered on his first mov-mov, then on his second mov-mov, and failed to kill Saladin in melee. he ate a Hunzacute rifle, a full TR bot HMG burst, two jammers and a chain rifle as well as Saladin going for him.

    The rest of his turn had a shrouded minelayer try to push up on my Hunzacutie on the right and was unfortunately taken down in the attempt. The Caliban engineer moved around and tried to rush the hunzacutie, and ended up taking her down with AP smg shots, moved in and ate her wound.


    Haqq Turn One:
    On Haqq turn one, i took down that caliban engineer with the Mukhtar Red Fury. i planted down a landmine with the still surviving Hunacutie and tried to push out with my Namurr. the Namurr managed to take out another shrouded minelayer, as well as dodging two mines. Unfortunately for her, she died to combi rifle AROs from the the third shrouded while she was in the good band for her spitfire. a harsh lesson learned on fighting outside of cover and being too bold just because you're NWI Total Immunity with a B4 weapon.


    Shasvastii Turn Two:
    His caliban tries to push up my flank, very luckily survives my land mines. He however is ambushed by my Farzan boarding shotgun at the same moment he came into range of a jammer. The unopposed jammer isolates him and the farzan survives.

    He co-ordinates his auto medkits on the two downed shrouded and they both die. his shrouded on the flank tries to poke out on one of my ghazi and fails to kill it, a single lucky dice does kill my doctor 30" away in cover who fired back though.


    Haqq Turn Two:
    i can't remember the full details of this turn, but my TR bot killed his isolated Caliban, and my Hunzacutie tried to push out on his flag. She however came up short, so i bunkered her down in cover and re-camo'd her after planting a mine.


    Shas Turn Three:
    He moved his few remaining pieces out and entered suppression fire to cover his flag. he also brought his TO camo guy out and completed his classified


    Haqq Turn Three;
    a ghazi mutt moved up with all my group 2 orders i had left and tried to plant smoke on the objective so my hunzacutie could rush in, pick the flag up and declare victory. i roll a 16 on my smoke. The hunzacutie tries to surprise shotgun the boarding shotgun guy whos watching the flag and dies immediately. i rush my farzan over who dies in the attempt.

    My Mukhtar was locked out of trying because of the dazer. Retrospectively, had my hunzacutie climbed the ladder and shotgunned the dazer so the Mukhtar would not be forced to move 2" an order, it is highly likely i would have won. Lessons learned!



    Main things to comment on:
    • Kasym Beg and the Biker girl were great fun for Looting and Sabotage.
    • Love the Daylami more and more, and i love the board control of the Ghazis.
    • Djanzaban HMG is really great when you dont get him killed early by accident
    • I need to reign in my use of attack runs a little bit more. haqq really doesn't have the kind of god tier attackers that can just punch through defenses no problem. At bs12 no mods i should've been a bit more creative with my namurrs approach to get cover on his Shrouded, and then found a nice place to drop into suppression fire. Its big hubris to stand in the open just because your weapon fires 4x as much as the enemy when they have CH: Camoflauge and you only hit them on 12s but they get to hit you on 15s. I'm really starting to learn the delicate art of attacking as Haqq with pieces like this. Landmines are also a huge terror honestly

    I would love if anyone had some tips on how to break through minefields, and how to engage models with antipersonnel mines that would love to drop them down instead of shooting ftf to try and take you with them. my Namurr certainly danced through those mines with her dodge on 15, but that is unique to the namurr who doesnt get included in every list

    Also would love any basic tips on my play or lists that you can pull out
     
    #19 Challenger, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:02 PM
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM
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  20. Challenger

    Challenger Active Member

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    my list was:

    G1
    Kasym, CoC Farzan, Hawwa AHD, Djan HMG, Flashbot, Fiday, Hafza HRL (deployed as warcor), Ghulam doc& Bot, Hunzakut, Hunzakut

    G2
    Zuleyka biker girl, 4x mutts, 3x Daylami, 2 kameels


    while he was running
    a hector dactyl link, a thorakite link w/ hmg and thrasymedes, Achilles and a netrod


    My turn one:
    My opponents list was kind of sparse so i had a lot of breathing room on the board. After my impetuous smokes went down, my Djanzaban HMG killed the Dactyl Engineer in Hector's fireteam who was watching the objective. He also killed a Thorakite with HMG. That gave Kasym Beg some breathing room to ride up and fire a smoke launcher at the objective. The objective was being watched by Achilles and Hector, but with the smoke on it my Fiday simply walked up and smacked it for the rest of my orders. I ended up doing a really solid 3 wounds to it.

    Other than that, a lot of shuffling around and positioning, So many irregulars...


    Opponents Turn one:
    This was one hell of a tragic turn. The main thing that happened was Achilles moved out and he killed the fiday easily with 3 shock rounds to the back. he tried to push out and down my left flank. Hector effortlessly executes Kasym beg with 4 rounds connecting off his plasma rifle. Disaster struck when he went FTF with a daylami panzerfaust who crit him and stripped 2 wounds off him (one from crit, one from failed save). he then tried to face the same Daylami again and once again failed, going uncon.

    My opponent moved up Hector's link team with the Dactyl doctor, managing to get Achilles back on his feet. Achilles tries to push out again, going face to face with the same hero Daylami who fires a long range shotgun. With achilles out in the open, the Daylami needs 5s. he rolls a 5 and crits Achilles back off his feet. The doctor runs over to poor Achilles again and stands him up again, taking an unopposed ARO from hero Daylami, and dying.

    When its all said and done, Achilles is left standing in the open on 1 wound.


    My Turn Two:
    My turn 2 is spent with my Djanzaban HMG putting Achilles down for good. After that the gun swings towards Thrasymedes and executes her. Following that, a ghazi pushes up around the side of the board and drops an Emarat on Hector who fails his BTS save. With the engineer having been previously killed, that meant hector was out of the game essentially.

    We conceded that game was won for Haqq, and moved on to our next game: