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Vanilla ALEPH - Hector vs Achilles2 LI

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by WarHound, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    So, as the title says: Which would you take in an LI list, and why?

    If I compare Achilles2 to Hector, I get the following in terms of raw stats:
    +2 1st MOV
    +1 CC
    +2 BS
    +1 PH
    +1 ARM
    +1 W

    Hector comes with more gadgets for sure, but Achilles has the raw killing power.

    I guess what i'm asking is:
    Is the extra regular order (instead of Lt-only) and x-visor worth more than the enhanced stats in Limited Insertion.

    I can see pros to both sides, which is what is making it so difficult for me to decide!
     
  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    @WarHound
    Did you catch Multiterrain+ODD/ARM6+Mimetism+Forward Deployment L1 on Achilles V1/V2?
    Also Hector doesn't have an ODD, when I started playing years ago I somehow managed to miss that.

    Seriously BS15 and ODD/Mimetism with the Spitfire is what makes Achilles take the cake.
    The X-Visor Plasmarifle is almost certainly the better gun, but raw FTF potential is nowhere near Achilles.
     
  3. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    Hector belongs in the Phalanx, where fireteams can make use of the regular lt order, and he can benefit from Fireteam bonuses.

    Achilles (and Patroclus) has great synergy with the MOV 6-4 of vanilla, the access to White Noise and infiltrating KHDs etc.
     
  4. entropolous

    entropolous Active Member

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    In vanilla, if you're spending the SWC for the spitfire then Achilles. If not I prefer the plasma rifle plus xvisor over the MULTI-rifle. In SP, the ability to link pushes Hector over the top.
     
  5. Wolf

    Wolf https://youtube.com/@StudioWatchwolf

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    @WarHound so.... I can expect you to throw down Aleph in Spain next month, my friend? :smile:
     
  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Hector is great for a linked extra order, specially if you play Limited Insertion, making him great for the SP, but alone... He is not an assault model, but a supporting one (if a very sturdy one), so you would be paying the cost of almost 5 Dakinis to get a Plasma gun and an extra order :(
    Achilles wants to use the Lt order, frankly, so the only real downside is to either face the risk of LoL, or place the Myrm Officer CoC (an extra SWC!!!).

    As for the Loadout, Achilles V1 for spitfire and use him primarily as a ranged hunter, while the V2 is a more generic option that is more ready for melee (+2armor, inmunne to losing the Mimetism from fire impacts)... If I get the Multi rifle profile, I prefer the V2 for that and the DEP (great ARO piece if needed).
     
  7. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you're onto me! ;)

    Of course, Achilles has the additional benefit of FD1, Mimetism etc, but mimetism helps mitigate his frenzy and if I had to 'go light' on the SWC i'd pick the Plasma Rifle over the Multirifle every day.


    I guess the answer lies in Hector's strength in ASS vs Achilles, and as @regelridderen said Achilles' synergy with other fast moving profiles in Vanilla.

    Whilst I have both minis, I prefer the v2 profile and miniature, so will go with that over the OD (also, much harder to mitigate v2's strengths, whereas v1 just needs a template or MSV to make him a sitting duck).

    Ta all!
     
  8. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Remember through that Achilles is frenzy if not with Patroclus, so he will eventually lose cover, that's somehow compensate half the ODD.

    Achilles is for search and destroy, which he excells at, moving and engaging the enemy from mid to short range, and Hector is more a support who can dish a lot of template damage if needed, while probably staying from afar (he is better at close range but it's less likely for him to get close).

    It's a bit sad Steel Phalanx can't have a HI link, since that would where Hector would excel, with his tinbot protecting the HI. The tinbot is useless for most of the Steel Phalanx.
     
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  9. RecklessPrudence

    RecklessPrudence Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Achilles, I saw something ages ago that said that v1 should always take the Spitfire and primarily be a gunfighter, while v2 should opt for the MULTI and concentrate on getting him into melee. Would you guys agree with that?

    Also, in your opinion which link team should Hector be a part of? If he's in a Myrmidon link team then unless Ajax is also there (which would give Ajax tinbot support, and he's the only HI that can join a link team Hector's part of...) he's the only model without ODD, potentially making him a magnet for impact templates. If he leads a Thorakitai team he'll be slowed down by them and they will really not want to get into melee while he's quite comfortable with it, although at least you'll be able to save on Nesai or Thrasymedes' SWC cost, for all you're paying it in normal points. The only other option is a Dactyl team, and while he would give a Dactyl team B2 on their glue guns and have both a doctor and an engineer right there to fix any problems he runs into, while also providing some heavy firepower on the active turn for the team, I've never found a Dactyl link team to be overly effective, myself.

    Or is it a case of 'he works well enough with any of them that it's a viable choice, for all he'd really like to be in a HI team'?
     
  10. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with the v1 Gunfighter mode, if only coz of the ODD. v2 *can* Gunfight, where his enhanced around will help, but without the stronger visual mods the v1 will do it better.

    Not sure on the ASS question as i'd never run them.
     
  11. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I tend to think Hector would be better with a thorakitai link with an engineer, a feuerbahr and a forward observer, something like that. It would have a long range weapon, an engineer for specialist duty and to repair Hector if needed (isolation, immobilisation ...), and the FO for 360° cover. Not that I have a long experience with him through, i like the mini but i still find him expensive.
     
  12. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    A 4 man team would have 360° cover from fire team bonuses :)
     
  13. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean, so i apologise if i misunderstood.

    SSL2 is not 360°, with SSL2 you need to be the target of the attack to be able to shoot back. The FO thorakitai can either flash pulse or SMG to the opponent even if he does not use attack or does not target him. So the opponent must either take care of the thorakitai first, thus allowing alert on the rest of the fireteam, or take both ARO from his target and the thorakitai. Can a fireteam be hit from behind ? With infiltrators or AD, that can happens, so i think it's always worth having something to cover the rear. And it happens that the humble FO thorakitai is cheap, specialist, cover most ranges with either a lethal weapon or a flash, and has 360°. No reason not to take him.
     
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  14. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    SSL2 superior against smoke, 360 visor superior against shot from behind.
     
  15. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    But in that case you have both ^^
     
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