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USARF lists for a noob - I will highly appreciate any critique

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Darvain, May 26, 2023.

  1. Darvain

    Darvain Active Member

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    Greetings. As was discussed and suggested to me in the other thread, I will post my lists here.

    Preamble. I am new to the Infinity in spite of owning a collection for more than three years, my games were limited by real life and I am still extremely inexperienced. I am not a fan of meta chasers and as such I play the models I like the most, not the ones people think are good. I am open to the critique and suggestions all the way, just be aware that I am a grown up adult and while I respect your opinion, I have my own and my own enjoyment comes before my win ratio. Without further ado, let's dive in.

    ITS pack 14.
    Mission - Any
    Army: gTAJdXNhcmlhZG5hLlVTQVJGIEdydW50cyBDb3JlIEdydW50cyBEdW8gQmxhY2tqYWNrcyBIYXJyaXOBLAIBBwCD3gEBAACA5gEJAACA5gEIAACA5gEFAACA5gEFAACA5gEGAACA5gEGAAIIAIMHAYsuAACDBwGLLwAAgwcBiy8AAIDrAQgAAIDrAQgAAIEAAQEAAIDsAQEAAIUEAZKZAA%3D%3D

    This is my training army. The idea is, we park in the mid-board and we shoot everything in the face, repeatedly, until it stops moving. Core of Rosie + Grunts and Harris of Blackjacks. We have a 112 Medic, an Engineer, Rosie, and two FO to do whatever. It is simple in the notion that in my mind, it does not care as to into whom or against what or what mission are we playing, we can play it. We can not do it well, but we can play it at least to some extent. It is extremely simple list with pieces that I like.

    ITS pack 14.
    Mission - ???
    Army: gTAJdXNhcmlhZG5hIlVTQVJGIE1hcmF1ZGVycyBDb3JlIEdydW50cyBIYXJyaXOBLAIBBwCC1QEIAACC1QEBAACC1QEBAACC1QEFAACC1QEEAACC1gEBAACC1gECAAIIAIDmAQYAAIDmAQYAAIDmAQYAAIPeAQEAAIDmAQUAAIDmAQgAAIDrAQgAAIDrAQgA

    This is my "screw you camo, I hate you and everything you stand for". Two Devil Dogs to Sensor the heck out of those markers and Core of Marauders with MSV L1 to shoot those Mimetism pieces off the board pronto. Also, we have a Harris of Grunts + Rosie and Foxtrots as standard. And flamethrowers. All the flamethrowers. Forever. Because, screw you, camo, I hate you and I hate using you and so on and so forth.

    Yes, as you can tell, I was touched most inappropriately by an expert in camo usage, only once, it made me hate camo forever. I am mostly over it. It is just fun overreacting in jest, sometimes.

    In the end, as you can tell from these lists and my points, I have absolutely no plan for these. I am too green and too inexperienced to really play and to tech towards any mission in general, so I came up with some general lists and try to throw them at the wall and see, what sticks.

    I do not lean into Van Zant or the Unknown Ranger _for now_, because I try to broaden my horizons a bit, I know they are good, but I can always slot them in later in place of some other pieces, but to get the feel of the faction, I am trying to play with less expensive toys first.

    Any and all critique will be appreciated. Truly. And I will change my lists to try new things, these are just my own takes on what is okay in USRAF.
     
    #1 Darvain, May 26, 2023
    Last edited: May 26, 2023
  2. Randomcallsign

    Randomcallsign Well-Known Member

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    In respect to what you've said about wanting to use what you've got painted and learning first I don't want to make too many changes to the structure/feel of your lists but hopefully I can give you a couple pointers that help out with your development of the "Greatest Faction in the Human Sphere."
    1st list: I'd suggest swapping the grunt paramedic in the core team for a 112 dr. He counts as a grunt so you'll keep the coherency bonus and sometimes that extra 10% reliability of the doctor on a 13 vs a medkit on phys 11 is exactly what the doctor ordered if you'll pardon the pun. Because you don't have any Muls the dozer is a little out of place here. You might be better off adding a second Hardcase or third infiltrating grunt to bog down the mid-line a little more. Lastly you might get more mileage out of the Maverick FO than your motorized 112. They're still a specialist so can push buttons like the 112 in the missions that require it but with the impetuous you have a little extra speed when you need it and you could really use at least one MSV in your list for your opponents camo mimetism midfielders that stay outside the range of your grunts flamethrowers.
    Tactics-wise here's what I have to say about this list: Both your fireteams are structured to play a very similar role. (that being one of a deployment-zone, defensive turret.) You may find yourself in trouble on denser tables where the long range bands of the sniper rifles aren't as useful. To try and mitigate that I'd suggest taking care deploy these two fireteams apart from each other so they can provide cover in their optimal bands across the table. Your grunts and the hardcase in the midfield are piece traders. Expect to lose them when they engage but throw them at bigger units so they take more than their points cost with them when they go. Keep the hardcase prone/hidden somewhere where you're able to dictate the terms of it's engagement. With the one-time camo you really only want to reveal on your active turn so you can leverage the surprise attack bonus to stack negative modifiers. If you can find two points in your list somewhere I'd advise on the rifle hardcase profile. In a list like this it's a great option to save as your reserve model. Deploy it near one of your opponents squishy midfielders you know you can take out. Then you can spend his irregular to reveal and kill something, and follow it up with an order to supress in the midfield with a sweet -9 to shoot back from stacking the mimetism, cover, and suppressive bonus.
    I'd also suggest moving either the bike, (the 112 or if swapped for a maverick) or the two foxtrots into group one. The HMG blackjack is going to be your primary attack piece here and it's going to eat up all the orders in that group to throw tons of teseum lead downrange. Group one on the other hand has the grunts that are more concerned with ARO's and there isn't really a model in that group that wants orders in the active turn. By moving the foxtrots or the bike over you'll find yourself having more orders to maneuver and accomplish the mission objectives.

    2nd list:
    I only have one suggestion from a list-building point on this one and it's that Rosie might not be the best fit for your grunt haris in group 2. I'd suggest swapping her for a second sniper grunt. The two point savings here would allow you to upgrade one of your vanilla marauders to a paramedic or boarding shotgun one depending on the mission requirements. You also have the same option form list one of swapping the grunt paramedic to a 112 doctor on foot but I guess that would make it two suggestions.
    With your marauder core don't be afraid to break up that team as you need to. In turn one having the 5-man bonus for long ranger ARO's will be helpful but when things die and it comes time to move further upfield later in the game you can kick out the two MSV guys and send the short-range haris up to help. Also, paramedics + phys 16 werewolves = PROFIT so my point about losing Rosie serves double duty here. Do what you can to keep your antipode's safe since they're the sensor option but remember they're also there as meat shields for the devil dog too. Total immunity is great but wolves still die to weight of fire so be sure to leverage your smoke grenades to cover your advance so you can safely walk into base to base. You've got three infiltrating grunts so it's worth it to try and over-infiltrate one of them to really ruin your opponents plan for deployment. I'd also swap the foxtrots and devil dogs in regards to combat groups. You're going to want to give the dogs more orders from your ARO grunts for their smoke and punching while the foxtrot's only need a couple since they'll likely start next to whatever objective they need to accomplish.

    In the grand scheme of USARF it's helpful to remember that it's not a very diverse faction and each unit tends to have a specific role they play very well. Lean into this as a strength and don't try to force square pegs into round holes. Your foxtrots should be hidden and kept safe and really only used for pushing buttons or coming out of camo to engage when you know they can win the face to face. With this faction it's even more important than usual to put all your focus in playing to the mission. We don't have the technology or special skills to outgun the more well-armed or higher tech factions so it's up to you to be picky about when you do engage in a fight. You don't have to kill a b5 two wound monster with an ARO if you just avoid the fire lane they're watching when possible. Null deployment and smoke are good ways to avoid unfavorable matchups and sometimes the best way to win a fight is to ignore it. In your active turn try to focus your attention on moving, dodging, and planning ahead to only initiate face to face rolls where the modifiers are heavily stacked in your favor.
    I hope at least a sentence or two of this novel is useful in some form or fashion but mainly these things will become easier as you get more games under your belt and learn precisely what does and doesn't work for you. The most important part is to have fun and it sounds like you are so at this point you're still winning even when you lose. As you're branching out within the faction and you start to introduce new models or profiles try to ask yourself "What does this piece do well and where on the board does it want to be?" Even more so in USARF than most factions you need to make sure your units are put in the best possible situations to be successful.
     
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  3. Darvain

    Darvain Active Member

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    I have much more on the chopping block for the USARF than what I used in lists. I have Minutemen "Ohio", I have Unknown Ranger, I have Van Zant and his merry squad of 6th Airborne Rangers, I have Mavericks. So, I have options, and from what I see in the sectorial in the army app, I have most of the things available to play at the shelf.

    1st list:
    Can be done pretty easily, but what does the Doctor in the link is for? He can not move freely from the link, and he is not speedy enough if he is not Motorized to dash forward and pick somebody up from the Null.
    I also have three Blackjacks, whom are hackable, so Dozer here helps them recover from any ill effects. I know that hacking is not generally the problem Ariadna has to fret over, but here it seems plausible. A case can be made for a Wardriver with EVO also.
    Can be done easy enough, the only problem here was, Doctor was Motorized to dash somewhere behind a smoke and with Mimetism -3 pick someone up, maybe. By replacing 112 Motorized with Maverick FO, I lose this angle, but I have no idea, how good is that.
    I got nothing, can you elaborate? I thought that I need more orders in group 2, that is why Foxtrots and 112, Motorized and Dozer are there. If they are not needed, they just feed orders to the trio of Blackjacks who, in a Harris, can push up the field. If I move them to group 1, to the Grunts, whom are much more defensive, what will I achieve?

    2nd list:
    No problem, I am not attached to her, I just thought that having a LRL will be a good idea.
    That was pretty much the idea, yes. And also why I chose three Rifles, makes the guessing game harder. They are all the same, who is to tell which one is a Lieutenant?
    So Grunt Paramedic is not enough, better have a spare one then? Noted.

    As I already told, I have most of USARF already. The only things I lack are Wardriver, Wild Bill, Desperadoes (whom do not have official models) and a WarCor. I see little incentive in WarCor here, because USARF are already cheap, and the rest are situational at best in my mind. Please, if you kindly answer my points from higher up, I will be much obliged.

    Edit:
    Based on your suggestions, the lists:
    1st list: gTAJdXNhcmlhZG5hI1VTQVJGIEdydW50cyBDb3JlIEJsYWNramFja3MgSGFycmlzgSwCAQcBg94BAQACgOYBCQADgP8BAQAEgOYBBQAFgOYBBQAGgOYBBgAHgOYBBgACCAGDBwGLLgACgwcBiy8AA4MHAYsvAASA6wEIAAWA6wEBAAaC1AGJnAAHgOwBAgAIgOwBAQA=

    2nd list: gTAJdXNhcmlhZG5hIlVTQVJGIE1hcmF1ZGVycyBDb3JlIEdydW50cyBIYXJyaXOBLAIBBwGC1QEIAAKC1QEGAAOC1QEBAASC1QEFAAWC1QEEAAaC1gEBAAeC1gECAAIIAYDmAQYAAoDmAQYAA4DmAQYABIDmAQUABYDmAQUABoDmAQgAB4DrAQgACIDrAQgA
     
    #3 Darvain, May 27, 2023
    Last edited: May 28, 2023
  4. Jim the third

    Jim the third Well-Known Member

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    It'd be for the same reason as you picked a paramedic - to pick up any link members who fall. And as you say, he won't be moving far from the link so he's likely to be within 4 inches to move into base contact and use the full Doctor skill for better odds than shooting a medikit.

    I usually take a 112 here as well but I always question it. TBH I'd more often like to use the fireteam burst bonus with the medikit than using Doctor, and the grunt paramedic has that tasty 3 ARM. But the extra WIP on the 112 can be nice if your fireteam gets up close to any objectives that need pressing.
     
  5. Darvain

    Darvain Active Member

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    Yeah. He is ARM 0 in otherwise ARM 3 link and I question that squishy nature of him immensely.

    Does Wild Bill bring anything interesting to the table though? He counts as a Grunt as well and brings +1 dam, Shock and Marksman on a BS 16 platform in a full link, it is just... Contender and a simple Rifle are so unassuming, I can not even fathom bringing him. I dunno, I want to use him, because for 21/25 points he is just so much better than a Grunt, but at the same time, he lacks the punch I need from my link to do... Also, AP Sniper rifle Grunt exists, so he is BS 14 b3 dam 15 shock ap... I dunno, maybe those Marksman penalties are worth it.
     
    #5 Darvain, Jun 1, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2023
  6. Jim the third

    Jim the third Well-Known Member

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    I love wild bill. NWI at 21 points makes him one of the factions best/few 2W models. The contender and his pistols give him scary B2 DA AROs up to 16 inches, making him a great corner guard if you’re moving an active fireteam far up the board, and in the active turn getting up close the B3 multi pistols shred
     
  7. Darvain

    Darvain Active Member

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    Thank you for your insight. Clearly I underestimate him something then. He is in the order I placed today, together with my second Hardcase and a Wardriver. When they arrive, I need to give him a spin. He will be B4 on the pistol in the link, correct?
     
  8. Jim the third

    Jim the third Well-Known Member

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    B3 total with double action, B4 with shock or AP. If you're "sure" you can win the F2F (i.e. you're not sneaking up close to a guy with BS14 and a shotgun) the DA is far deadlier
     
  9. Darvain

    Darvain Active Member

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    Noted, thank you. Will try him out as well in some cheap bodies team, where he can be a point man.
     
  10. Mekvenner

    Mekvenner New Member

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    Some notes to add:
    • The paramedic vs the 112 Doctor: I would take a paramedic in the grunt link and a doctor if it's not going to be in a fireteam. The fireteam burst bonus applies to the med-kit so you'll get 2 dice to roll and only 1 of them needs to succeed. BS 11 Grunt +3 8" range bonus, +3 pure fireteam bonus means 2 dice at 17s then 2 dice at the PH roll. If you miss one of the shots then it's the standard odds of a single PH roll but if you hit with both which is very likely, then you only need to pass 1 of the 2 PH rolls. For the record, doctors have medkits too so it works with them as well but you can save a couple points taking a paramedic.
    • The Blackjacks Harris is basically your only attack piece so there should be as many orders as possible in that group, an even distribution of orders doesn't help you here, I would be doing a 10/4 or 9/5 split.
      • Group 1 - BJ, BJ, BJ, GSn, GSn, GL, GP, Rosie, 112 Moto
      • Group 2 - GHF, GHF, Fx, Fx, Dz, HC
    • Take a hard look at the Maverick profiles, they got waayyy better with the bike changes from last season. I take the spitfire profile in most of my vanilla lists, it's a great bandaid for a collapsing flank.
      • Smoke Launcher, MSV1, Mimetism -3, and ARM 3 on all profiles. They can set-up their own smoke to shoot through.
      • BS12 AP Spitfire for 1 SWC & 28 Pts.
     
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  11. Darvain

    Darvain Active Member

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    Thank you for your reply. I am leaning to just a 112 doctor on foot in the link now. You made all good points though. Thank you!
    I can not take a harder look, I already got three! It is just, I suck at big models who can't take cover and I think, the bikers can not? Maybe? I am unsure now. :/
    Anyway yeah, I made several adjustments to my lists, and I included Maverick FO in the first list. I did not manage to squeese hard enough for AP Spitfire though.
     
  12. StephanDahl

    StephanDahl Well-Known Member

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    When you deploy, you can choose not to be Impetuous. You loose the imp order, but gain the ability to claim cover. Very flexible!
     
  13. Gio

    Gio Member

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    Hi, can you elaborate on that, please? what ruling allows for this?
     
  14. StephanDahl

    StephanDahl Well-Known Member

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    https://infinitythewiki.com/Motorcycle

    When deploying an Impetuous Trooper with a Motorcycle, the player must choose whether the Trooper keeps the Impetuous Special Skill and therefore cannot benefit from Partial Cover, or loses the Impetuous Special Skill and therefore can benefit from Partial Cover, with no change in their Cost and SWC
     
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