So seeing the gator it's pretty clear the lizard in it's current state is obsolete, some said so before but I tried to hold the belief it was fine. I can no longer do so, the old girl needs a bit of a rework so I propose we give it a guided multi hmg and take away the grenade launcher. This would make it a very unique TAG and tie into the board control nomads do so well. Whlist also maintaining the identity it used to have in n3 of dropping grenades on people.
Uh... is there a Guided Multi HMG in the game at all? I agree, grenade launchers in N4 aren't what they used to be in N1/N2. Now, as for comparing Lizard vs Gator: stat-wise, they're almost identical (Gator is +3 CC, but on a TAG I don't call it a significant advantage. Though noticeable regardless). Equipment &skill-wise, Gator has - ECM -3 (Hacker), +1 CC Damage, Dodge +2" and Natural Born Warrior - neither of these Lizard has )(all other bits are identical). True, those pieces of kit and skills look like they should be costing more points than they do, given the price difference between Lizard & Gator. But the forum opinion seems to be rather that the Gator is over-eqipped, than Lizard is under-equipped. Weapon-wise, they share Multi HMG. Also, Gator has an EM CCW where Lizard has a regular CCW, which is an advantage, but I'd say it is a highly-situational one (how often does one see a TAG engaged in a close combat with something suspectible to EM...?). Gator does also pack a Chain Rifle (inferior to Lizard's HFT as it has less damage, and no Continous Damage - but on the other hand, +1 Burst) and a mine dispenser (which, indeed, is potentially very useful). That's of course for the Lizard HFT variant. The GML variant has a DAM 15 Specultive Fire-capable weapon (with all its pros and cons, including relatively short range and the need for Spotlight / Forward observer, if you want to shoot it reliably) that is not comparable to anything in Gator's arsenal. Bottom line: Lizard isn't bad, it is perhaps a bit bland. But for years, Lizard was the benchmark MBT all other TAGs were compared to. Compared to Gator, I'd say the Gator is somewhat over-equipped, rather than Lizard being underequipped. If you want to see a TAG that really badly needs rewriting, look at Iguana & Anaconda. And one final tohught: Lizard, the current, original N1 model, is scheduled for phase-out in a few weeks. End of May 2022, IIRC. This makes me assume there is a resculpt coming. And with a new sculpt, perhaps new profile. So, here's soem hope that you'll see Lizzie rewritten :)
Just the Lizard? What about Gecko, Szally, Guijia, Raicho, Chernobog, O-Yoroi, Squalos, etc, etc, etc, that are also quite costly and bland in comparison. Not to raise an argument that's already been made, but... I'm kinda curious how the Gator has been performing on the table. If the Gator is still kind of fair, then maybe that's a sign that several of the TAGs ought to be revisited and adjusted to be reasonable compared to the Gator and if not then the Gator really should be brought in line with the others. And on a related note, grenade launchers ought to have their +3 range band back. I know the Lizard never had it owing to the Heavy Grenade Launcher it used to have, but in the new reality I think the lack of +3 range band is an unwelcome feature.
*with pilot in one Box* Spoiler TBH, I'd be fine if they just release ONE generic Nomad pilot blister since they keep plopping out new TAGs before resculpting old pilots. Pilot should be Lizard pilot girl level hot, though.
As with all things that are equal, opinions should diverge. I would value the Squalos more, but both are a bit lack lustre for their points cost as are most TAGs.
Just going to quibble this bit, EM CCw is probably the games best CCW (including mono) combines EM and normal so it's more fair to call it a DA CCw which saves on 1/2 BTS and causes isolation and IMM as well as wounds. (generally agree with the rest of the posts content however)
Geckos are fine for cost, but the FT changes screwed them a little as they can no longer get a tinbot to protect them selves making their main issue one of current competitive game state, though they can still have a wildcat link with them to help mitigate that (either hacker or engi). Also in regards to the etc. etc. etc., a special mention needs to be made regarding "the most advanced" human TAG, the Zeta, once again having that description thoroughly dumped on (Though it is probably the only TAG I use with any regularity, as there are fuck all equivalent options in SM for the role).
While we may, of course, agree to disagree here, my reasoning is - whatever CCW is on a TAG, it is dead weight except for very, very specific (and rare) situations. In my entire Infinity experience, I recall one case of a TAG initiating close combat: Scarface against a Locust, somewhere in N3. Trying to chop the Locust down seemed preferable to trying to hit him thorugh that ODD and Cover (spoiler: it took a while, but Locust did prevail...). I don't count the case when an Iguana tried to trample down a Ninja back in N2. "Trample" was TAG-specific skill that ignored normal CC rules, therefore circumventing Ninja's Close Combat prowess. And of course shooting wasn't viable due to TO Camo... Trampling opponents down went away with the advent of N3. When a TAG gets into close combat, it is usually because the opponent initiated it - and did it with a model really proficient in CC, or at least despreate enough. I've had PanO TAGs chopped to pieces by McMurrough in a cloud of smoke. A Yuan Yuan doing the same to an Avatar (with a Booty-resulting Mono CCW). Al-Hawwa making a desperate run with D-Charges. Yes, Gator's Natural Born Warrior and relatively high CC give it an edge in those situations. But still, most of those models you face are likely to get wasted if the TAG lands a hit on them. MBTs like Lizard or Gator have PH of 17, even without an additonal +1 CC Dam of the Gator this is difficult to deflect if they land a hit. So the additional effects of an EM CCW are going to be - nine times out of ten - just an overkill. Now, I find the idea of Gecko being a CC-oriented, or rather, anti-CC-oriented TAG to be a very interesting one. Glad to see CB trying something out of the box, as there were TAGs that are good in CC before (say, Guija, with CC of 22 and MArts L2 on top of it, packing a DA CCW. Or O-Yoroi). Whether the execution of it is one up to my liking, well, that's another kettle of fish.
I was talking about the blank non-NCO version as well. I don't agree it's tons worse, I think it's marginally better.
High CC + Natural Born Warrior + E/M CCW are good. The idea is that you massively threaten anyone who wants to fight your TAG in CC... They lose their Martial Arts benefits, making it even more of a straight dice-v-straight dice roll off, and if the opponent loses, they get clouted by a hit that Isolates them, and prevents them from follow up with additional orders. The rules combine to form a defensive countermeasure to one of the big threats that TAGs regularly face.
This. We just assume that TAGs should be the power that they are because that's what they've always been... all opinions like that should be challenged. Quite frankly, bland high stat dude has been a bad archetype in the game since it's inception so not sure why that would be any different just because the model in question is S7. Don't get me wrong, I think the Gator is pretty bad design. But this is because its strengths are specifically TAG weaknesses, not because it has too many of them.
