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Unseen Weapons of the Human Sphere (Speculation)

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Del S, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Del S

    Del S Nomadball

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    Not every weapon a faction h[​IMG]as access to has a model, and sometimes not even a nice dossier pic. One example is the Submachine Gun for Nomads: Though carried by some minis, I don't think any actually display on their person, nor dossier.

    So, with that in mind, I did the old 9000 hours in Gimp trick to mock up what I think one might look like by haphazardly kitbashing bits from other weapon dossier pics:
    [​IMG]
    (Sniper front blade, spitfire/sniper/hmg foregrip-handle, spitfire stock, thinner extended combi magazine, shortened combi muzzlebrake/flashhider, shortened combi front end)
    Nomad weapons largely seem to have the same basic receiver, with different front ends, stocks, magazines, or scopes added for role. As a result I thought it might wind up being a combi-rifle but with smaller rounds (thinner magazine), a little more streamlined for the Szalamandra pilot/Kriza to carry, and with a slightly lighter (retracting?) stock like the Spitfire. This gives a slightly shorter profile than the Rifle, and though a longer magazine is on this one it could presumably be shorter, maybe even flush magazines to really fit into a TAG cockpit easier.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    But that's just what I think about one pew-pew device. There are others, and I bet others have their own ideas about what those guns might look like. And maybe there are weapons that do have a dossier/model, but you've never seen them in the wild and might want to learn about their appearance. So, let's hear it.
     
    #1 Del S, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  2. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    @Del S nice graphic, Del; you probably deserve a graphics app that doesn’t feel like doing penance for past sins? :wink:
     
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  3. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    Fire Grenades.

    Viral Grenades.

    Been saying it for years.
     
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  4. boquepasha

    boquepasha ALEPH is love, ALEPH is life, ALEPH is your friend

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    I had to do something like that for a conversion I was comissioned to do for my Warcor. At that time, there were no Yu Jing SMGs available, so I had to create one by mixing up various types of Yu Jing rifles/shotguns. It was fun :joy:
     
  5. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I think it looks a bit too bulky for a weapon that can be wielded one handed by a non-augmented human. That being said, I approve the reasoning for the image change, and it looks pretty cool too, even it it looks more like a compact carbine than a submachinegun.
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Most SMGs are designed to be fired two handed, even in Infinity the Ariadna SMG is a more compact version of the rifle and the Yu Jing one has an obvious foregrip. The models don't always use them as intended but then we've got LI and MI holding machineguns one handed. A one handed a full auto weapon in Infinity would be better classed as an Assault pistol.

    The line between compact carbine and SMG (or "machine carbine" in British WWII parlance) is also pretty blurry, the MOD classified the HK51 as an SMG due to size despite the fact that it fires full fat 7.62 NATO, and a lot of militaries class the stubby AKs as SMGs.
     
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  7. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

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    For SMG I would look to MP-7 and MP-9 direction, small PDW.

    Personally I will convert it as some small firearms piece, bigger than Ingram but smaller than AK
     
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  8. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    At the moment I'm busy creating a believable "S.W.A.T. Combi-S.M.G." for My upcoming "Aradna Teseum Hunters" Campaign for the R.P.G. . . .

    That weapon essentially will be a Silenced Satubmachinegun of equivalent if 9 mm. / 10 mm. of Caliber, with mounted Underneath some sort of Underbarrell Ancillary Weapon, usually for "Mercenary Police Purposes" a Sawed Off Cal.12 Shotgun. . .

    For the more "Primitive" version of those just imagine a contemporary Heckler & Koch SDK (with fixed Rifle-Stock and Red-Dot Refles Sights) with an Underbarrell Browning Semiauto / Ithaca Masterkey Shotgun (usually for blasting away door hinges, but there are many potetnially useful systems). . .

    Ariadnan, Haqqislamite, Nomads and A.L.E.P.H. would have a similarly drawn Weapon (the last two in "Smart Cyberplastics" and with many nice "Glowing Dot Accessories" of any kind of Hitech) for the generic structure. . .

    Also creating a Yujing one that essentially will cross Light Shotgun underneath the basic frame. . .

    The Pan-Oceanian Model will be a little more tricky, as I personally despise the "Inverted Banana Clip" design; I'm imagining the new Knights Light Shotgun affixed underneath a miniaturized, smaller version of the T.A.G. H.M.G. (the one with oversized Handrail and with the Drum Clip in the higher part of the Frame, rather than downside !!). . .

    Rough Sketches will be ready soon. . .!!
     
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  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I always wondered if the Nomad SMG was a bullpup weapon. That could be cool.

    Really nice graphic though!
     
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  10. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    @Solar. . .

    At the moment the "Cyberpunk Bullpup" craze is disappearing from the Offical Art Concepts of Infinity Guns. . .

    While once ALL the Nomads Weapons had weird, tiny, ballistically improbable "Rear Mini-Clips" (unless they were really Energy Cartridges for Star Wars styled Blasters) then they are Technically not anymore so weird. . .

    The "Guns From The Motherships" have now a recognizable Forehand Clip and more sensibly placed Trigger Mechanisms (even if the more advanced such as Red Fury and Contenders still have a lot of absurd "Space Opera Gewgaws" of incomprehensible function) and even the second most faithful "Bullpup Maniac" of Yujing seems to have more and more "Fore Clips". . .

    It is JUST A.L.E.P.H. that still have Ballistically Improbable Guns with sharply angular oriented Clips put almost INSIDE the Stock (except for their "Italian" S.M.G. that I found one of the coolest weapons of "Big Brother Computer" arsenal). . .

    Even the Morats, aliens that even if barred from the "Best Stuff" available from other Combined Army Elites have now Guns that make a logical sense, from a point of view of Ballistical Technology and Firing Ergonomics. . .
     
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  11. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I quite like the Yu Jing bullpup designs though
     
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  12. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed they are very beautiful, but the latest that I have seen develope was just on 3D Print Render for a T2 or Shock Marksman, that resembled the Basic Combi with a narrower design and a straight non-banana clip. . .

    Further modern stuff seem to be very "Classical" in Design. . .

    Especially for the newest Boarding Shotgun that have returned to a Design of Tubular Slugs Magazine + Pump Action that scream more "Ariadna Hillbilly" than the awesome Old Concept of the Drum Fed "Pseudo Spas 12" that is still present in some Dossiers. . .
     
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm noting that the Japanese Secessionists are getting some weapons from PanO, like the ML and Marksman Rifles (shock or multi).

    I did finally come up with a reason for the PanO reverse-curve magazines, too. PanO rounds are shaped like a cone for reliable feeding, but the fat end of the cone is up front, so that as more space behind the bullet comes available, there's more powder getting burned. Primer is still in the back of the round, and the projectile is telescoped into the wide end of the cone like the HK G11 or 40mm CTA autocannon.
     
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  14. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    @Section9. . .

    But that You pointed did not contradict recent "Gun Fluff" from official C.B. Sources. . .??

    Apart from ALL of the Ariadnan made Guns, some choice Haqqislamite ones (surely all "Flavours" of the "Bourakalashnikovs", light or heavy; NOT the Viral Guns) and all the Morat "Xenorifles" it was not clearly statted that ALL Infinity Firearms are a sort of weird "Liquid Metal Fluid shaped by Magnetic Coils and shoot my Mass-Driver Mini-Railguns in the Barrels". . . . .???

    I am positively sure it was discussed in the Old Forum when was asked why the Yujing Spitfire had a "Round Drum Clip" with a serie of "Small Bottles" and the H.M.G. is a "Banana Clip" with a linear progression of the same fluid containers. . .

    Same Idea was discussed for why some "Vintage Pan-O Guns" had NOT the sensible "Russian Bizon / Calico Helix" cylinder kind of "Ammo Boxes" but rather some weird "Angled Bottles" such as in the old Squalo T.A.G. hand-held H.M.G. . . .

    A point towards YOUR actual thesis is the fact that, for Panoceanian Guns, both the Boarding Shotgun and the Marksman Rifle, in official Dossiers Concept Art, have clear plastic / transparent magazines that shows either a "Bullet Spring" or "Slug Details". . .
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I vaguely remember that discussion, but I think that shaped-liquid-metal-launched-by-railgun was specifically Multi weapons, not Combirifles.

    But it's been a long time since then.
     
  16. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, like the Caseless Ammo that seemed all the rage in the '90; while I did not shoot it, I went to a N.A.T.O. Armorsmith demonstration where a Bundeshwehr Specialist did show off the experimental Heckler & Koch G11 "Caseless Assault Rifle" prototype. . .

    While the rate of fire was impressive (it teared a basic Police Target on Hard Cartoon with half / a third of normal cased ammo) and the recoil was minimal (on a massive, muscular German Officer that seemed a Viking Giant in modern fatigue, anyway) there are a lot of issues that were pointed by many of the interviewer (comprising My "Gunsmith Guru" at the time, Doctor-Engineer Torosani, CHIEF Developer of N.A.T.O. Military Applications for Franchi S.P.A.S. Shotguns !!). . .

    The best accurate critics where similitudes to I.M.I.-Galil "Desert Eagles"; wonderful Precision Guns for Heavy Target Shooting, but very poor performances on the rigors of a Battlefield

    Like the Bullpup design, for some times it strike the fancy (and have a lot of advantages, such as compressed space and mass for Paratroopers and Tank Crews) but these often are balanced by various issues. . .

    I have no idea if a Bull-Pup (or even a Caseless "Resurrection" should it ever happen) Model of Gun would perform better in Police Tactical Situations; I have ever employed Rifles and especially S.M.G. with basic configurations, either fore-grip Banana Clips (so essentially indistinguishables, in Basic Ballistic Tech, from the Armalite M16 or Ak47 that almost ANY Soldier worldwide should be familiar with) or some modern revisitations of the "Uzi / Ingram" Machine Pistol with elongated Sidearm Clip. . .

    I have shot BOTH with "Older" H&K MP5 in 9mm. and the newer, fancier "New Uzi" H&K MP7; found no appreciable differences with employing the same kind of curved 9mm. clips (obviously should one be as brawny as Arnold Swarzenegger in "Terminator" a pair of MP7 sweeped one in each hand would be a little easier, but this is a thing for "Barrio Gangstas" or "Biker Drive-By Shooters" and not professional Military Trained shooters). . .

    About hypothethical "Police Bullpup S.M.G." My ex, an Austrian Woman who worked as Consultant for the "Polizei" of Vienna, had indeed shot with the 10mm. chambered version of the Steyr A.U.G. and declared it cumbersome, unreliable and tactically unsound. . .!!
     
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  17. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    @Del S I love the design, but I was wondering if the Nomad Boarding Shotgun foregrip might be more suitable than the enclosed foregrip of the Sniper? Not sure if it'd be easily combined with that shortened barrel casing though. Just a thought.

    I do love the Nomad firearms though. In many ways, they're my favourite. Especially the new Spitfire, which looks extremely cool.
     
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  18. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    The US military is trying to re-arm all the grunts with a new weapon family, starting with the Squad Automatic/light machine gun. They're torn between plastic case-telescoped and caseless, as well as torn between 6.5 and 6.8mm.

    • Plastic cased is heavier than caseless, but is a little simpler in the weapon, plus the plastic case absorbs some heat from firing and gets it out of the weapon.
    • Caseless is significantly lighter, so you can carry more ammo for the same weight. But the rounds are more fragile, and the weapon heats up faster.

    • 6.5mm (that's .260caliber for the non-metric) bullets are very long for their weight, which makes them very aerodynamic. This means less speed lost over distance (ie, flatter shooting) and less drift caused by wind. They are very good for long range shooting, over 500m. Ironically, the 6.5 Grendel that everyone gushes about is pretty much identical to the old 6.5mm Arisaka at short range. Same bullet weight and muzzle velocity. The difference is ~70 years of bullet design to make a much more aerodynamic projectile, so the Grendel actually hits harder than 7.62mm NATO beyond 500m!
    • 6.8mm (.270caliber) bullets are shorter for their weight, less aerodynamic. However, this means that the bullet takes up less volume inside the case, leaving more room for powder. This makes them start out faster, but slow down quicker, when compared to 6.5mm. So 6.8mm is better within 300m, even with highly aerodynamic modern bullets.

    The reason the military is torn between the two calibers is that although most infantry firefights in Europe or Korea happen within 300m, the machine guns need to reach out to 900-1200m. And honestly, giving the basic rifles one caliber and the machine guns another is a poor idea, even though the US has been doing it since 1965. As the Germans will tell you, the MG is the source of the firepower of the squad, so you should choose the caliber that maximizes the firepower of the machineguns.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Probably not something the US Army is actually considering, but considering the amount of bullets they fire and the current state of the planet, I sure hope they don't go for plastic...
     
  20. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    Insert rant on the .280/7x43mm, branching off in the 80s to lambast .40 and 10mm here...
     
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