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Triggering Mines and Mindgames

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Sepheriel, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. Sepheriel

    Sepheriel PanO Enthusiast

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    So... is there a legal way to check if an enemy is inside the trigger area of a mine without revealing the marker to be a mine?

    In-game context: let's say I have deployed a Naga minelayer (camo marker #1) and a mine (camo marker #2) around midfield.
    Example 1: a random Alguacile walks towards camo marker #2, and stops about 8" away. Since the mine must trigger if something enter the trigger area, I'd have to check it, so my opponent could tell the marker is a mine.
    Example 2: a random Alguacile walks towards camo marker #1, and stops about 8" away. The Naga is not forced to declare anything, so there can be no measurement, so my opponent could tell the marker is not a mine.

    Now, all this interaction is significantly affected by how good both players are at judging distances without measuring. Is this intended? Is there a way to protect my markers' identity?
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No, it's an intended trade-off.
     
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  3. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    note: if you own the mine, you are Responsible for declaring trigger at the first available opportunity.

    This means the onus is on you to declare the trigger as soon as there is a question of "if" the mine is triggered, if this is then out then so be it, but no holding mine declarations for your benefit
     
    JoKeR, chromedog and Sepheriel like this.
  4. Blakhart

    Blakhart Well-Known Member

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    So what happens if you think an enemy model is in your mine's Trigger area, you declare it's ARO is to "go off", place the template and the enemy model is NOT in the template range?
    Does the mine still go off and get used?
     
  5. Urobros

    Urobros Well-Known Member

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    Nothing happends, because you don't choose when the mine is or not activated, only that your rival knows now that the mine don't cach him, at least in the first half order.
     
  6. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    The way I resolve it is to ask the other player to turn around or close his eyes because "I have something to check".

    Then I check with the template. But it could be TO ligne of sight or something else.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Mines don't declare anything. If a model gets close you stick down the teardrop to check.
     
    #7 Mahtamori, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  8. JoKeR

    JoKeR HAWZA Instructor
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    well. Imho
    opponent declare first skill. in our case it is Short skill - move.
    you declare ARO. & also in the same moment declare the mine goes off. cause you MUST do it if you think target in range. you NOT measure or place teamplate this moment.
    opponent declare second his Skill - for example Dodge.
    new ARO declaration if possible (no).
    now resolve - in THIS moment you check with a teamplate.
    if it not hits the target - nothing happen - the mines is not goes off & even not lose a Camouflaged state cause mine not a trooper & not declare ARO. if in place of mine were for example a Liberto & he declare chain colt - when he lose his camo even if his teamplate actualy not hit the target.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @JoKeR all template attacks are set down on Skill declaration.
     
  10. Blakhart

    Blakhart Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's what I am kinda asking.
    You have to tell the opponent that there is a Mine there yet, you don't know if the enemy model is actually within the Trigger area till you put down the template.
    So when do you place the Template and What happens if the Template doesn't reach the Enemy Model that was, thought, to have Triggered the mine in the first place?
     
  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If the enemy turns out not to be in the trigger area, then the mine doesn't trigger and nothing further happens.

    The fact that your opponent gains information regarding range and the fact that it's a mine is an intended drawback or concession within the rules.
     
  12. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Yah I hate nebulas rules like this. A player could essentially force another player to disclose if a camo token is a mine or not by skirting close and calling that range into question.

    If I was TOing I wonder what the expected punishment is for failing to trigger, I wonder if the foul can be forced.
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. Fouling requires the mine's owner to try and avoid disclosing it's a mine so it's entirely on that player for fouling.

    The problem with TOing it is if not checking trigger area makes the opponent spend a large amount of orders, but that's par for course when TOing and someone messes up the rules and it has significant unforeseen consequences.
     
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