RAW: Yeah, probably, since triangulated fire just says you ignore mods, not specifically BS mods or anything like that. RAI: Who knows intent but I feel like the fact the list of mods in triangulated fire only includes BS mods is a strong indicator that they only meant those MODs, and not burst, or any other potential mods (e.g: the damage mod from fatality)
pretty sure RAI was the conclusion last time we discussed this. Honestly these days im caring more about "how is it supposed to work" and want a more active FAQ effort from CB.
Mayby with a note of actually "not breaking" the rules more in FAQ as recently CB have in a way of doing...
Allows the user to declare a BS Attack with one of his BS Weapons against a target within LoF by making a BS-3 Roll, ignoring all other applicable MODs (Range, Cover, Special Skills such as Camouflage, TO, ODD...). Everything in there refers to BS Rolls and BS MODs. I can't see anything saying that you'd ignore the Burst MOD.
Because the Saturation Zone is still MOD to BS Attack ? Fact that it is not explicitly listed does nothing to clarify the matter as we have "...." marking at the end of the listed modifiers. All in all it's unclear and RAW it clearly ignores Saturation Zone effect. Fun fact question: would Triangulated Fire ignore -3 modifier imposed by Stunned state if (stunned state) would have not prohibit ATTACK declarations ?
Is a Burst MOD applicable to 'a BS-3 Roll'? And you already know the answer to the Stunned question, why ask it?
Because it's not the question which is important in this case (as you noted we already now it's hypotetical) but the way of reasoning and resolving the rules. Same as the main question in this thread. It's obvious that the intention of the rule was not to bypass Saturation, but wording does suggest such a thing. Simply adding "ignore all visual mods" would clear all confusion. (on the other hand it might have require a new specification of what exactly is and is not a "visual mod")
Frankly, I'd rather go with "...applying no further MODs to this roll". I think it should work without creating additional entities...
Triangulated Fire: "Allows the user to declare a BS Attack with one of his BS Weapons against a target within LoF by making a BS-3 Roll, ignoring all other applicable MODs ..." Saturation Zone: "Any BS Attack from, into, or through a Saturation Zone suffers a -1 Burst MOD." I don't even see how there's a question in the rules as written. You ignore all other MODs. The Burst MOD is a MOD. So you ignore it. It's pretty clear. It's even capitalised the same way. Just because something isn't included in an example doesn't mean it's excluded from the explicit meaning of the rule.
@Hachiman Taro @ijw 's argument is that a BS Attack results in a number of BS Attack Rolls and Triangulated fire only cancels the MODs to each Roll. Personally, I don't think that stands up otherwise why do you get full burst if you Triangulated Fire not through a Sat Zone? Why don't you make a single roll? FakeEdit: but in the mean time this is resolved to the 3rd standard of rules resolution.
RAW is pretty clear, but we usually apply the burst MOD anyway, because it makes sense to us. I feel what they really meant is "...applying no further MODs to the BS roll", but that's pure speculation.
No, Triangulated Fire allows the user to declare a BS Attack ignoring all other applicable MODss. The +3 ARM MOD is applied by the target of the attack, not the user of Triangulated Fire.
I'm arguing absurdity that burst MOD from saturation zones should be ignored, but I don't read that sentence as having the user of the BS Attack as the subject, but rather the BS Attack itself as the subject. It isn't too absurd, though, but it's still something to consider if your position is that burst MODs are to be ignored.
Yes, but you can distinguish them without breaking RAW. You can't with the Burst MOD (unless Triangulated Fire is by RAW an effective Burst 1 BS attack, and you make a roll). But it's moot anyway.
You are correct that MOD states it applies to only attributes. But saturation zone: Any BS Attack from, into, or through a Saturation Zone suffers a -1 Burst MOD. So saturation zone mod is ignored for everyone as mod is not applicible? Because if it is a mod, as is written, then triangulated fire would ignore it.
That passage calling the penalty to burst a MOD is nonsensical within the rules set; there's no allowance for MODs for non-attributes. I would suggest treating it as if it was not called out as a MOD as the rules start to fall apart if you do that. In any case, Triangulated fire only states that the BS roll itself ignores all other mods, so the target still gets the ARM bonus from cover like normal, and Saturation Zones apply as normal.
