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Tohaa delegate and Kaauri Sentinels Special Fire Team Tread

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Barsik, Feb 13, 2021.

  1. Barsik

    Barsik Well-Known Member

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    Would it be too much?Will it break balance or give Tohaa something unique?Would you like such Triad?
     
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  2. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    I believe not needed.
     
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  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    I'd rather see Kiel-Saan get stock triad rights before any other changes, but kauuri and delegates are both cool individually, so sure. Sounds fun.
     
  4. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    It might be a little too good because you would probably have to give the Delegate a regular order, and that would probably be the cheapest regular order in Spiral (would probably clock in around 8 points). You might see her fireteam profile taken in a lot of lists just to nab an extra order at that point.
     
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  5. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about you, but I rarely, if at all, make a list without her, because, you know, she's a specialist with Nanopulser, Flash Pulse and infinite DA Jammer for 5 points. :D
     
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  6. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Right, but she's Irregular, which means you either have to spend a command token to convert her order to a Regular one or spend it on herself.

    If she were to get an FTO profile with Regular (like Spector or Musashi), she'd probably have that FTO profile taken a lot just for the added benefit of being Regular and not to actually be used in the Fireteam.
     
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  7. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Are you serious? No, she's already insanely good. More cheap regular no-LoF DA weaponry, 3 regularly in a single list, would not be good for the game. It would be N3 Muttawiah all over again.
     
  8. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    I think he's suggesting keeping the AVA at 1, but letting the Delegate (possibly an FTO Regular version) fireteam with Kaauri Sentinels (presumably acting as a diplomatic escort).

    But I agree, I'm not sure the Delegate needs any more tools in her arsenal. Letting her give 2 Kaauri Fireteam bonuses might be a bit too strong defensively, and giving her 2 bodyguards to escort her on a last-minute Specialist run might be too strong overall.
     
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  9. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I mean, if you made her like 16-20 points or more maybe, but then what's the point?
     
  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    That's way beyond the pale. She's competitive at 8-9 points if regular, but 10+ and you just take the irregular profile and put the difference towards another order.
     
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  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Uh, no. A no-LoF pheroware attack, template attack, and flash pulse with CC-3 and specialist plus a Regular order is worth well over 9 points.

    That's at least 13-14 territory. Look at a CSU specialist, then add the no-LoF ARO.

    People are getting ridiculously candyland these days. Walk it back folks, consider whether you would be happy to see that across the table at those points.
     
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  12. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    CSU has Metachemistry, Sixth Sense, +2 BS, +4 CC, +3 BTS, a Para CCW (-6) (better than CC-3), and a Rifle + Light Shotgun combo, which is better than the Flash Pulse + Nanopulser that the Delegate has. Convenient how you mentioned exactly 0 of these.

    The Pseudo-hacking ability is cool, sure, but you're seriously out of touch with how many points things are worth. Going from Irregular -> Regular is worth ~4 (see Musashi), which puts her at roughly 9-10. 13-14 is too much, and your initial estimate of 16-20 is so absurd I'd question whether or not you even bothered to try and make a reasonable suggestion or were just having a knee-jerk reaction.
     
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  13. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    CSUs have BS weapons that can do wounds
     
  14. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The Diplomatic Delegate has a no-LoF attack that can do wounds [EDIT: Isolation! Even better.] AND a Flash Pulse.

    She's about the level of a decent grunt trooper, overall. Those are priced between 11-13 points.
     
    #14 Savnock, Feb 21, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  15. Barsik

    Barsik Well-Known Member

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    No-LoF attack inflicting wounds???
     
  16. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Sorry, brainfart: confused Eraser and Endgame for a moment. Eraser is even better than Endgame though against heavy targets, being DA and DAM 14. Isolated is almost as good as dead, and a lot easier to achieve.
     
  17. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    ... no, Isolated is not even close to good as dead. Because the unit is still alive, which means it can still kill something in ARO, or spend its Irregular order to go do something, or (new to N4) Reset out of it and continue doing whatever it wanted to do.

    Keep in mind that it doesn't work against STR units, so no hitting TAGs, REMS, or any of the other various STR units running around (like Kaauri, for example) or units with Veteran (so Securitates, Sukeul, Vet Kazaks, etc.).

    A standard Hacking Device has a very similar attack in Oblivion that works on all the targets that Eraser doesn't; TAGs, REMs, HI, and opposing hackers. Hacking Devices, however, also have 3 other attacks they can use, including Spotlight which works on every model in the game.

    A Hacking Device is worth... 5 points. Eraser should be worth SIGNIFICANTLY less, as it is only 1 of the 4 options that a hacking device has with a different (albeit larger) pool of targets. Probably about 2 would be fair.

    You know what else is a no-LoF attack that Isolates? And it works on models with both W and STR? Jammers. Take a look at the troops that come with them (like Hecklers, or Tian Gou).

    And the level of a 11-13 point grunt? Go look at a Kappa Hacker. 12 points, SMG, Hacking Device, BS 12, WIP 13, ARM 1. Take off 5 points for the HD, Add on ~2 for Eraser and you get 9 points. THAT'S where the Delegate would be if she had a Regular version, and that's only because she has a Nanopulser and is a Specialist. Again, go look at Musashi. Going from Regular -> Irregular is 4 points. Spector pays even less at only 3 points, but he loses Parachutist and Combat Jump. Difference between a WarCor and a Flash Pulse Remote? 4 points. Difference between a Morlock and a Jaguar? You guessed it; 4 points again!

    9 points, maybe 10 if CB felt that 9 was too OP. Your reasoning is off.
     
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