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To link or not to link, that is the noob question?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Nuada Airgetlam, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    As a newbie, I'm having a very hard time with using links. Specifically with both deploying them (especially when going second) so that they are not scattered outside 8" from the leader and at the same time not clustered together too much and susceptible to infiltrators / paradroppers with templates, and with moving them across the table.

    I'd like to ask more experienced players whether using links in armies like Ariadna is mandatory because I'm otherwise handicapping myself or whether non-linked TAK is feasible just as well?

    Every single time I tried to use something obvious like a Vet Kaz AP HMG + Front HRL + Line + Line + Line, something went horribly wrong and I either lost the bonuses because the Lines got picked off on the move or I deployed badly and something like Bran the Ape dropped in with a shotgun.

    I know that I still suck at the game, but maybe taking it slower and not using links for the time being would be more sensible? I feel like my new Tohaa and Triads will be much easier as almost anything there is linkable and the links are much smaller. Tri-Cores in the new sectorial might be even better as I need to worry about the footprint of only three soldiers to move around, not a big five-man group.
     
  2. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    You don't need to run links to be competitive.

    If you are playing a sectorial you are paying an opportunity cost by limiting your unit choices to gain access to a link. (I.e. no chasseurs)

    If you choose not to use links in a sectorial you are missing a benefit.

    That said, people plenty of times build lists and don't use all their resources, sometimes my lists are 4 swc for instance.

    What is important is you take in learning this game in chunks that are manageable for you. If you are having difficulty managing linked movement go ahead and omit a link for a while, or maybe just use a haris so you have less guys to juggle.

    If you must feel like you need to be bleeding edge competitive go ahead and play vanilla and slip in a few optimised unit selections.

    Really I think your assessment that you're still learning probably explains your lack of success more than anything thing else... Play what you want to play and learn from the process.
     
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  3. Sora9785

    Sora9785 Well-Known Member

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    Just use The Link As a defensive Link. Meaning: Just put a ML and a Sniper in the link on guard and never activate them. Only for ARO purposes
     
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  4. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    Would AP HMG and HRL work just as well? How should I place them? If I start, an experienced player hides his stuff. On reactive, I'm worried that they will get plinked off in F2F vs enemy snipers and long range multi dice monsters like linked Red Fury. How do I deploy?

    I've had some success with a lightweight Frontovik HRL + Line chaff link which just pie sliced and knocked models down one by one, but it was extremely order-consuming and potentially left the link exposed in the middle of the table.
     
  5. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    There's only two (three now, I guess) reasons to play a sectorial over vanilla:

    1) You are going to use a link team.
    2) You are going to use the AVA advantage of a certain units.
    3) You are going to build around profiles only available to a sectorial.

    TAK is fortunately one of the best places to be for #2, since you get 4 Streloks, 4 Spetsnaz, and 4 Scouts (compared to 1, 2 and 3 in vanilla, respectively.) But if you're not going to play the link, and you're not going to take advantage of this, why not just play vanilla?


    There's two big mistakes I see people make with link teams:

    1) Not taking enough bodies to reform the link if someone dies. You really should have another Link Kazak or Frontovik hanging out for when your Frontovik Sniper (I would say this profile is much better for that link) or HRL dies. You need the active turn BS bonus to make your link work, so you need to make sure you can have it if you go second.

    2) Not considering the opponent's army/list when deploying. If you are playing against JSA, for example, having everyone face mostly forward isn't a problem -- the army doesn't have AD units, and its superior infiltrator will be coming from in front of your DZ. Against Hassassins, on the other hand, you should ensure that every single guy is being covered by at least two other guys as Fiday insurance, and your opponent might be work and bring a Ragik.

    But yes, what you're experiencing is part of the design -- link teams are inherently less "wieldy" than single pieces. I would start with a defensive core and a haris you want to move around the table, and just deploy the core and leave it as is the whole game, while your Haris does most of the active turn objective grabbing and shooting. Haris links are easier to navigate around and it will be much easier to find places to leave them on the table where they're not lined up for a cheeky boarding shotgun.
     
  6. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    There are units specifically not available in Vanilla Ariadna that are in TAC (why is everyone writing this as "TAK", btw?), like Carmen + Batard or Dynamos that I'd like to play with. But yeah, the AVAs are way more lenient and USARF for example has AVA Total Grunts. So, I guess, that's why? :)

    The problem I see here is that basically requires me to spam Line Kazaks and then I either end up with link + 3-4 dudes in Group 1 and a small/ish Group 2; or I spam Line Kazaks even harder and get two full groups but get told I'm "That Guy" for the 18-20 order spam :/

    TBH, I'm trying to read up unit reviews and such online, but there's no way as a beginner player for me to know which armies have what if I hadn't played them yet outside of scrubbing Army hard for stats and all the myriad of skills and their convoluted interactions, which I don't really have time nor inclination for.

    That's one of the reasons I've had issues with deployment, when I think I'm all fine and dandy, some ridiculously cheap flamer / boarding shotty profile ADs / infiltrates in and wreaks merry havoc on my link.

    Yeah, that's why I hope to gain more link experience with Tohaa, especially the Tri-Cores.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    How is 18-20 orders while playing Ariadna being "that guy"? If it's 20+ camo markers, then maybe...
     
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  8. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    I dunno man, really. Maybe it's about my being a slow playing newb and this prolonging the game even more? I have no idea. I thought flexibility and aggression through numbers and camo are the only serious counter Ariadna have vs the high-tech factions.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'd argue that there isn't enough difference between factions to make such a comparison, but it is without a doubt part of typical and intended Ariadnan faction strength to have more troopers than most others.

    I have personally found that moving a fireteam is very time consuming and high order count together with a highly active fireteam is a big time sink. Vanilla Ariadna can play with 20-30 orders without having too many problems with time, but doing the same in a sectorial can be difficult as a newbie while still maintaining a decent pace.

    Don't let their grumbling about order count get to you, your faction is literally meant to play that way!
     
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  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    You should pretty much always hit about 15 orders in TAK -- you have 9 point orders so take advantage of them. I agree with @Mahtamori on this one, 18 orders of Ariadna isn't "being that guy" it's literally just "playing the army." Look at something like this, for example.


    [​IMG] Tartary Army Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] FRONTOVIK Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)
    [​IMG] FRONTOVIK (Multiespectral Visor L1) AP Sniper / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] STRELOK K-9 Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines + 1 K-9 Antipode / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] K-9 ANTIPODE Trench-hammer, AP CC Weapon. (8)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Mimetism, AD: Parachutist) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] SCOUT (Forward Observer) Ojotnik, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I don't play TAK and I don't really think this is a great list, but it shows that you can take a link, put down more than 10 camo markers, and still have room for good attack pieces and specialists. You could even downgrade the Strelok minelayer in group 1 to an FO and get yourself a second Spetsnaz HMG or a Tankhunter if you wanted.
     
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  11. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of good suggestions here already. I think trying to practice with triads is a really good idea. You could even go one step further and use G:Synch units to practice with.

    I've been playing since HS came out in second ed, and I still struggle moving a core fireteam around sometimes.
     
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  12. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's just that my G:S units are doge, there's no shooting layer, just move-move or move-idle when the controller move-shoots smoke, etc. Not as complex as a 5-man link.
     
  13. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    It's the moving multiple models while trying to be aware of every possible ARO that gets me in trouble most of the time. Moving a core team in the active turn is where you'll experience most of the risks to the team, IMO. I suggested G:Synch more as an easier way of learning to move multiple models while simultaneously looking for potential AROs, similar to trying a Haris or Triad, but with even fewer models to reduce the cognitive load. The shooting part of the equation is different, but the moving and positioning is what it sounds like you're asking help for.

    Deployment is so table/terrain dependant it gets hard to discuss without setting up a table. The best advice I've heard to get better at deployment is to set up a table and deploy, then run through the first active turn. Rinse, repeat. If you have two forces you can do this by yourself, but it'd probably be more fun with another player that also wants to get better. Then you can take turns being active or reactive.

    Keep in mind that being in a fireteam doesn't make a model invulnerable. A linked ARO piece will die during your reactive turn almost as easily as an unlinked piece. So if the plan is to leave members out to ARO, bring more models that can reform the link after the first line of defenders dies. I try to make plans based on the assumption that anything I purposely leave out for AROs will not be available to me in the following turns.
     
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  14. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    With the lack of premeasuring in the system, one of the hardest things to wrap my head around is the size of the ZoC. One of the main reasons I've so far identified is the tendency to make the fireteam leader "the pointman", which makes all the others lag behind him and be severely limited in mobility by nooks and crannies of terrain.

    I need to get better at placing my team leader more centrally and visualizing that the ZoC is 8" radius, which give whopping 16" diameter. That's a fairly large pizza right there! I think that if I manage to remember that and try to keep the squad within an about 10-12" circle when the leader is more or less central, then there will be fewer issues with making them move around. Less susceptibility to templates, way better choice of cover and movement path, etc. - especially since on every single order you decide which person is the link leader and if somebody fell out of coherency by chance, the rest can adjust slightly and you're still golden.
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, first of all I don't really recommend new players use Fireteams until they get the basic rules down solid.

    But if you're going to run fireteams:
    If your army of choice supports it, try to run some single-combat-group lists for a while to get used to running the big link around. I know CHA doesn't really support the 10-order build very well due to lack of specialists, but Russkies seem to work OK.