Hey, I would like to ask if anyone knows answers for the following ones: A TO Camouflage trooper chooses to use CH: Camouflage to deploy as regular Camo Marker. It then engages in a shootout with enemy trooper with no MSV. Does the TO trooper benefit from -3 or -6 modifier from his CH skill in this order? A TO Camouflage trooper chooses to use CH: Camouflage to enter regular Camo Marker state. However he is in LoF of a HD trooper, which decides to reveal and shoot at him. Does the TO trooper benefit from -3 or -6 defensive MOD in this case? Thanks in advance!
While on camouflage state, it is -3 to discover. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Camouflaged In order to Discover a Camouflaged trooper, the enemy must pass a Discover Roll with a -3 MOD. Once it is revealed (voluntarily or otherwise) it is -6 to shoot, so, if it get discovered + shot, it is -3 to discover, -6 to shoot http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Camouflage_and_Hiding_(CH)#CH:_LEVEL_3._TO_CAMOUFLAGE Additionally, any BS Attacks against the user of CH: TO Camouflage suffer a -6 MOD to the relevant Attribute (BS, PH, WIP...). Note how the camouflaged state gives -3 to discover, and the CH:TO skill gives the -6 to shoot
Camo and TO both have NFB so you can't benefit from both in the same Order. N3 Frequently Asked Question FAQ Version: 1.1 Q: When a Hacker equipped with ODD uses the Hacking Program: Cybermask, does his ODD turn off? When will the ODD turn on again? A: A trooper can only use or benefit from one Special Skill, piece of Equipment or Hacking Program with the NFB Trait or Label in the same Order.
Camouflaged is a state, not a skill. so it has no problem with TO Camouflage wich is a skill with NFB Cybermask is a skill with NFB and ODD is equipment with NFB, so you can't have both at the same time. Also, camouflaged states: This State does not affect Automatic Special Skills or Automatic Equipment.
The camouflage state is activated by the camouflage skill, a skill with NFB, in the same way that impersonation 2, a state, is activated by cybermask, a skill with NFB. It's the same situation in both cases - ergo camouflage interrupts TO camo.
Agreed. The Camouflage lvl. 2 skill (NFB) allows a model to enter the Camouflaged state (-3 BS modifier). Camouflage lvl. 3 skill (NFB) allows a model to enter the TO Camouflaged state (-6 BS modifier). If a TO model (eg. Spektr) is in Camouflaged state, then it has voluntarily downgraded to the Camouflage lvl. 2 skill, and therefore cannot benefit from the -6 for Camouflage lvl. 3 - you can't take some benefits from lvl. 2 (Camouflaged state) and some from lvl. 3 (-6 BS modifier) at the same time, as others have said.
Just adding confirmation if you down grade and deploy as a regular camo you're -3 on the initial order and then can revert back to -6 on all following orders (its helpful to note this point specifically with your opponent). And an HD model reacting stills gets their -6 mod.
No, it's not in the same way. Cybermask is Supportware that is constantly running to keep the IMP state.
Are you not in constant use of the camouflage skill while in camouflage state? Or did you just mean that cybermask is supportware, not a skill.
The Camouflage Skill lets you deploy in or activate the Camouflaged state. As we know from the FAQ, you can't turn off the optional Camo Skill to cancel the Camouflaged state, so staying in the state is not dependant on using the Skill. Cybermask supportware lets you activate the IMP state and must remain running for the whole time that you're in IMP state.
So, are you saying that a downgraded TO trooper can benefit from the -6 of the TO skill even in the CAMO state? Or are you simply arguing that the reasoning/analogous example put forth is incorrect?
Both. I think the reasoning/analogy is incorrect, but this means that you can benefit from the Camouflaged State and the TO Camouflage Skill in the same turn, because the Camouflaged State does not have the NFB label.
I'm very confused now because I know asked this in the past because I made heavy use of downgraded deployment with Clipsos Minelayers and I'm certain that the opposite was the answer... so what I am mis-remembering.
I don't think you're misremembering, as I remember the same thing. Perhaps we didn't actually have anything other than forum consensus at the time, though...?
