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Thoughts on Vanilla

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by MikeTheScrivener, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    As the title implies, let's talk about Vanilla

    Is anyone out there an avid Vanilla player? why?

    It seems to be that the sectorials (even MO) have such great options and flexibility that vanilla seems to be left in the dust. The Nisse is really the only profile not in a sectorial that would draw me to Vanilla. Especially with Varuna coming out, is there really any reason to play Vanilla?
     
  2. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Swiss + Guarda in one list ?
     
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  3. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Is that really that viable though? Thats around 120 points for two units that fill a similar role and don't synergize all too well. I like both units, but do you really need both? Once again, there's other HI in the sectorials that can perform a similar role with better support.
     
  4. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Keep SG in HD, get the rampage on Guarda, then on 2nd turn drop Swiss from HD and kill everyone who had overextended himself ;)
     
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  5. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Not a Guarda fan. I don't consider it durable or killy enough to justify its cost.

    On the topic of Vanilla, am also not a fan. The reason isn't in the Vanilla options (there are some good ones in there) but more in the cheerleaders.

    We have to rely on Fusiliers at 10 points, and REMs. Fusiliers pay for +1 BS, but that +1 BS doesn't let an unlinked Combi Fusilier impact the game very heavily in a cheerleader role. If you compare this to Jaguars... Or Netrods... Kuang Shi... These are units that provide Orders and benefits that are clearly defined and difficult for an enemy to negate. Your Jaguar can Cheerlead just as well as a Fusilier, but can also die holding a corner with his Chain Rifle, rush into CC if necessary, or deploy smoke reliably to help his force. That depth of utility is amazingly good.

    You can also look at two of the game's strongest Vanilla forces: Vanilla Ariadna or Vanilla Haqq, where the pricepoint of all models is low enough that you can still build 16+ Orders composed entirely of asymmetric trade models with helpful abilities...

    That being said, it is nice that Vanilla PanO can combine some cool elements. Acon Regular Minelayers and Auxilia, while being very expensive for cheerleaders, are fantastic backline support. Nisse supporting Swiss is also a very good tandem team. Croc Men are very powerful, and the Kamau HMG (only costing 1 SWC for its HMG!) is a good Vanilla purchase (the Dakini Tacbot HMG still puts it to shame in terms of efficacy vs cost, but that's PanO.)

    For me though, the selling point of Sectorials is linking your cheerleaders. Suddenly you can use them to attack/defend, and the +1 BS you pay for on PanO units starts to yields returns on the point investment.
     
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  6. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Not played Vanilla a lot because I started it at the beginning of the season and then passed to MO because of the set of scenarios the French Satellite fits more for them than for any other PanO army (well, maybe ASA would do well too but I wouldn't be able to score well with only two lists with ASA all the scenarios of the ITS like I can with the two lists I have with MO).

    BUT, I've played it for about 10 games and what I saw is it is more awesome than you could think. The possibility of building lists that are fun and powerful is just incredible. I've lost myself at the start when building lists with Vanilla. The few things to me that put Vanilla in high place are:
    • Double TAG lists: you can combine MBTs and Light TAGs, thing that is only available effectively in ASA but you don't have access to Seraph and Squalo/Jotum. Plus you can put in some of the most handy low cost troops available in PanO.
    • Combining the most efficient HIs of the whole faction together: Hospitaller doctor with Joan Lt and Aquila HMG for example.
    • Still lots of REMs but you have access to the low cost Fusilier Hacker for support programms and mighty specialists but cheaper than those NCA can provides.
    • Mixing Akal and Crusader Brethren is really a fun thing and an tragedy for your opponent.
    • KotHS and Teuton can find way easier their place there.
    That's all I can find for now but the list is great and I really aim to play the last season more between NCA and Vanilla than with the other sectorials, even if Varuna comes out.
     
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  7. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Eh, double TAG lists can be achieved in the sectorials with more potency. I like the idea of actually using AD troops haha, I find that combining all these HI rarely works out, as they all act as a type of hammer to pummel your opponent and taking too many leaves you with few orders and with no link teams, you're short on efficiency.
     
  8. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Few things:
    • Double TAGs lists aren't as efficient in NCA or MO because of the amount of points it request for the first and the lack of long range and anti-tank firepower for the second. As I said, ASA can provide good Double TAG lists but the problèm for ASA is the SWC cost as even a Regular FT is SWC heavy and your two TAGs are really effective at long range only. In Vanilla, mixing Squalo and Seraph, for example, can give nightmares to your opponent while you don't need that much more SWC to have your last 8 orders.
    • If you struggle at playing with 10 orders, well, you miss a third of the joy, I think, that Vanilla can provide. Being able to mix NCA and MO HIs while having the cheap toolboxy ASA troops to back them up, for example, is something that is a thing in Vanilla. You don't need FTs, NCA HIs and TAGs can compete alone againts a whole fireteam in active and reactive turn (if you use the good unit for the good job). And instead of risking 5 people against a HD unit equiped with a MULTI/Viral sniper rifle, a Flashpulse or a ML, you just risk one guy.
    • Even if you prefer to play horde lists, you can mix Auxilias, Minelayer Regulars and Bagh-Maris and play some powerful Kamaus. You still have a wide access to REMs so it is easy to play the same kind of "Aperture Science" lists that NCA and ASA like sometimes.
     
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  9. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    I started because of my love for Crocmen and never seem to be able to leave.
    Almost all my games are vainilla now.
    The only way i managed to do it is by starving my enemy of targets (lots of TO) and squeeze the orders like there is no tomorrow.
    Also, Joan, you need Joan to play Vanilla.
     
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  10. TaHu

    TaHu Well-Known Member

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    because in vanilla we have the mighty Cutter!!!
     
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  11. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    So I'm guessing you fellas will be excited when Varuna comes out, eh?
     
  12. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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  13. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Vanilla?

    Oh boy, it's been so long I need to dust off the archives. Have to admit I've been distracted for a long time and won't visit that place anytime soon in the near future. Still gotta love Vanilla.

    You end up getting back what you traded for Links.
    Some of that includes the combos none of the Sectorials can pull off. Seraph + Swiss, Tik + Aquila, etc.
    Your MO troops get access to a proper (TO) KHD. Your NCA Guards get proper Infiltrators to push buttons for them. Your SAA guys get to have someone around who can point a sword in the right direction.
    The individual standout troops for Vanilla are the classic Nisse HMG, Crocmen and Jotum. There are also a few choices that feel far more at home in Vanilla than in their respective Sektorials.
    Dragao, Lt Joan, Fatherknight AHD and the Hospitaler Multirifle Doc come to mind.

    With the Cube Jäger around Vanilla just got another tiny bit better, as it is now home to the only cheap and Unhackable AD Specialist in the entire Faction.

    I'm really astonished no one mentioned the crucial piece that brings it home for me yet.
    Krakots.
    Only in Vanilla PanO gets Warbands with Forward Deployment DTWs and Berserk - or Warbands at all. Oh and they're great against Mutts too, pretty good argument in my book.

    /edit: Oh and yes the others are damn right. Vanilla is the place to be as far as pulling off double TAGs is concerned.
     
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  14. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Krakots can do some cool things, no question.

    I tend to get lumped into the bucket of "competitive player", which is largely true... I like ITS play. But I also like my armies to have a coherent aesthetic and unified feel, as much as my feeble painting skills will allow. I never felt that Vanilla PanO hung together well as a cohesive themed entity, so I like Sectorials for looking and feeling like a cohesive combat unit. Having super jumping space monkeys in the mix doesn't help that too much, though I fully recognize they're tactically awesome for PanO players. 2 Krakots, 2 Auxilia, 2 Minelayers is a bit expensive from a cheerleader perspective, but damn, that's a very combat-capable group of 14-point dudes.
     
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  15. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Why do I Vanilla?

    - Authorised Bounty Hunter
    - Auxilia
    - Acontecimento Regulars
    - Hexas
    - Kamau
    - Krakot
    - Order Sergeant
    - Black Friars
    - Nisses
    - Aquila Guard
    - Sepulcher Knight
    - Hosptialler Knight
    - Joan
    - Magister Knight
    - Swiss Guard
    - Montesa Knight
    - Teutonic Knight
    - Cutter
    - Dragoes
    - Jotum
    - Bulleteers
    - Dronebots
    - Mulebots
    - Peacemakers
    - Locust
    - Croc Men

    And the mix of all of those together ('though not all at once, unfortunately).

    It's about the sum of the parts being more than the individual parts, and the wins you get from synergy.
     
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  16. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Also, THIS!

    We might not have the best cheap cheerleaders, but PanOceania can put a damn solid range of mid-price units on the table.

    Me, I'd put the Fusilier FO and Hacker, the TraumaDoc and Machinist onto that little "low-ish-cost high-ish-value" list too.
     
  17. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Count me partially convinced! Maybe i'll start toying with Vanilla lists now. I've never really looked at the Krakot, but maybe. I've always been a huge fan of the Kamau Hacker and was a little disappointed when he got more expensive and some skills/equipment he didn't really need. none the less. I'm more or less an NCA boy right now but when Varuna comes out I might switch over in full force.

    As for the Cube Jaeger, I find the SWC cost really debilitating for him in PanO. I find him much more at home in something like Ariadna.
     
    #17 MikeTheScrivener, Mar 15, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
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  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    [​IMG]

    You should visit this city, it's a lovely place.
     
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  19. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    [​IMG][/URL]PanOceania──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG][/URL][​IMG][/URL][​IMG]10[/URL] [​IMG][/URL] FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)[​IMG][/URL] AKAL COMMANDO Combi Rifle + E/Mitter / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 24)[​IMG][/URL] NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)[​IMG][/URL] NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)[​IMG][/URL] FATHER-KNIGHT Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 50)[​IMG][/URL]MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)[​IMG][/URL] PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)[​IMG][/URL] PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)[​IMG][/URL] PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG][/URL] PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)[​IMG][/URL] BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)[​IMG][/URL] BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)GROUP 2[​IMG][/URL][​IMG][/URL][​IMG]4[/URL] [​IMG]1[/URL] [​IMG]2[​IMG][/URL] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)[​IMG][/URL] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)[​IMG][/URL] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)[​IMG][/URL] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)[​IMG][/URL] TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) 5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    thoughts?
     
  20. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Winter Force Jotum
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1 9 / 1
    JOTUM MULTI HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, D.E.P. / . (2 | 103)
    CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    KNAUF MULTI Sniper / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    GROUP 23
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Sval for the win!

    Normally the paramedic would be an FO, but I was playing supplies
     
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