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This seems interesting - Infinity Deathmatch: Tag Raid

Discussion in 'General' started by The_Evergrey_One, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Metal, in house, please.
     
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  2. Mob of Blondes

    Mob of Blondes Well-Known Member

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    The Italian company that made the machines used by CB for metal miniatures also has spin cast resin/plastic solutions. And some time ago a Spanish company launched an injection machine using soft moulds. Polish one had something similar even before. GW plastic will mean lots and lots of parts, because HIPS and other rigid plastics can not have undercuts, and the molds will be very expensive and not worth for smallish runs. The systems I mention do not have those problems. Oh, also, one UK company seems to do resin like if they had machine guns on full auto, their moulds were interesting, very efficient, multiple "great value" KS already. So even "old" methods can work fast and cheap. Not complex retraining needed, and extra crew can be hired from the automotive sector around the zone, as they use similar concepts and companies are in shaky ground currently (IOW, maybe interested in diversification).

    Quick visit to DIY. At least here, cement for both hard (pipes... and models from multiple brands) and soft (beach balls) PVC is easily avaliable in small tubes. But yeah, CA and some modeler tricks will do.
     
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  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Plus, they make games like ASOIAF which are supported for years and counting...
     
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  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I got one of my buddies to play Infinity through Defiance. "This faction has werewolves and werebears in space? Sign me up!"
     
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  5. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    Are they still making asoiaf stuff? That was a game I almost kickstarted but I was really worried it wasn't gonna be really well supported. I'll have to look into all of it.
     
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  6. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah defiance and aristeia are definitely in my tool box of getting board gamers interested in infinity. Suck em in with cool models and atmosphere.
     
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  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Very much so. Greyjoys are dropping next month, and they're doing a game-wide rules revision the month after that. Best Rank & Flank game on the market in my opinion, moves at a much more stately pace than Infinity but it has a card mechanic similar to Aristeia's that adds a good amount of depth. It and Infinity are very different, as far as miniature wargames go, ASOIAF is much more accessible and "casual," but I find them both fun.
     
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  8. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    I'm in if models are metal, not really interested in plastic, I think for CB it's still cheaper to produce in-house and they have way more control in this case. Either way for many of us it's most likely gonna be a cheaper way of getting TAGs in bulk, which you either gonna keep, or split with friends. If the game is great, then it's just a great pleasant addition.
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Plastic, particularly GW style, has a huge set up cost and if these TAGs are to be one-offs then the molds alone will be insanely expensive for the low number of runs compared to what the molds can take. Add to it that GW style also requires some pretty costly production techniques which also doesn't lend to low quantity runs...

    Metal or resin would be my preferences.

    Resin is relatively cheap and viable for low quantity runs* from what I hear, as long as you don't do whatever GW did with Finecast (which is funny since Forgeworld did resin just fine). After a brief, but intensive, collecting of Scyrah during PP's transition period away from metal, I'm of the opinion that for large bulky miniatures metal is inferior.

    * as long as you don't do too dainty little limbs, which TAGs shouldn't have.
     
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  10. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    Perhaps. Metal has lower entry cost for the manufacturer.

    But - as I wrote here before - it will also make the game quite expensive. I'm talking ~500EUR entry price, before the stretch goals. Comapre that to Defiance's 100EUR entry price.

    Sure, for the last 20 or 30 years we were told that there are two ways of doing it: you could do metal castings, which could be effectively feasible for even a low-scale, garage operation (and there are many companies that did exactly that!).
    And then there were injection plastics like GW did, which needed very expensive machinery to do (but once you did, you could churn out loads of the same model sprue at a very affordable individual cost).

    The thing is - there seem to be a few other technologies available now. Some of which could be fitting CBs needs, in terms of affordable enough entry price point, being able to produce models cheaper than with metal, and still keeping the quality and quality control standards they want.

    The world - including the wargaming industry - has moved on in that meantime :)
    And while I don't think I'll hop on-board of the TAG Raid game, I'm certainly curious about how the CB intend to tackle the problem of making a game with "a dozen" of TAG models in it.
     
  11. SpectralOwl

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    My preference would be for a pledge option with Battletech-style cardboard pieces, and a premium platinum xtreme-whatever pledge with the actual CB-made miniatures. I'd certainly be willing to try the ruleset, Aristeia! and Infinity demonstrate that CB can make fun rules across both wargames and boardgames so I've got some faith in that at least, but I just can't stomach handing over half a used car's worth of investment for several TAGs, especially when odds are good I already have enough to play a side.
     
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  12. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    That could, perhaps, make sense for me, too :)
     
  13. SockLobster

    SockLobster Well-Known Member

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    why do certain minis gamers get off on lecturing re: the costing of various moulds and casting materials/processes? is this an industrial engineering forum now

    fairly sure when they say it will work with infinity they don't mean it will be plastic...it's gonna just be a bunch of unique metal tag sculpts, likely with as yet unreleased designs such as the resculpted lizard and whatever the Russian tag will be as per the teaser (both those factions are going to be in code one come august, so it lines up pretty clearly with the "tag box" style sku planning)

    they do seem to be hinting that some sort of PVE component exists in the game a la the closing exclusion zone in a battle royale, and i think that could mean another megalodron-style big plastic thing, but their comments about the game's minis being compatible with infinity indicate that metal's a safe bet for the majority of the game's minis imho
     
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  14. Errhile

    Errhile A traveller on the Silk Road

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    @SockLobster we're scratching our heads, thinking out possibilities.

    Because regardless how you look at it, it has to be feasible.
    Including financially.
    For both parties: the manufacturer, and the target customer base.

    If you can and are willing to lay out ~500EUR (my assumption on the entry cost, guesstimated on the current prices of CB's metal TAG miniatures, and the declaration that there would be "a dozen TAGs" in TAG Raid box) for a game, man, congratulations on the most excellent state of your finances. Honestly.
    However, seems that many of us can't / aren't willing to spend that kind of money on such a product. Which is going to reduce the available target customer group.
    Again, if CB have done their research, and based on that they estimate they can launch a successful Kickstarter for a board game with a ~500EUR entry point (and that's before any stretch goals), while still making a worthy profit on it - shiny, more power to them!

    But what we're giving our thought to is: how could it be done cheaper than with current TAG (metal-cast) model prices, because for many of us, the requirement to splash up money for a dozen TAGs (and then some) at once makes for a big fat red No entry signal.

    Also, we don't know anything about the game that would make us discuss other points.
     
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  15. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    This is what I was hoping to do with Defiance as well, but a combination of price, shipping and Brazilian taxes killed the game for me. Which is half the reason I am hoping for plastics this time, as I've never had issues with Aristeia and components.

    Eeyup. Still coming out. Slowed down due to Covid, but they've dropped 5 new factions since the KS, and the game is pretty fun. I wouldn't say it is as tactically diverse as infinity, but definitely feels well balance and there's a lot of love in there. Plus, the sculpts look boss. I love the Khal Drogo mini.
     
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  16. Freki

    Freki Well-Known Member

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    My point is that metal for things bigger than your traditional S5 HI is not the optimal material. Heavy, will always feel fragile no matter how much you pin and glue it. Unless you weld it, but that is not possible. My large fire golem from Malifaux is similar in size to my Szaly and to travel with, handle on my hobby space or on the battlefield, the plastic golem feels so much better.
     
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  17. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    Confess to be TOTALLY ignorant of all of this if viable for CB sponsored KS stuff. . .

    But Privateer-Press and Corvus-Belli have some sort of "Friendly Rivalry" as Wargame Producer goes on (on Conventions some staff of both has been heard giving Positive Comments one the other. . . . . .instead some "Unsavory Bad Concurrence Practice" that I could say about some SORT of Behemoth-Sized "Hyperpower" of the Industry, like say, something along. . . .COUGH! . . . .Games. . . .COUGH!. . .Work. . .COUGH!. . . .Shop). . .

    I followed for a little their "Warcaster Project" about Plastic (I believe) "Sci Fi Versions" of their "Warjack Robots" (commandereed Telepathically / Psionically from a Orbital HQ Ship) for a "Colony War" setting between a "Monolithic Overpower" Faction (Tyrannical "Knights In Space" some sort of "Pan-O + Yujing" Mergers) and a "Rebel Guerrilla Freedom Fighters" Faction (sort of "Nomad + Haqqislam" like employing repurposed Industrial Mining Gear as weapons of war), with an interloping "Evil Cult of Space Necromancers" (Tohaa Spirals? Combined Army??) and a sort of "HALO Precursor Robot Guardian Army" (Combined + A.L.E.P.H.). . .

    . . . . .

    Anyway, is NOT the Background of that Game that I want to discuss there, but the Kickstarter Pledge Mode that could be somehow useful there. . .

    Plastic Mecha of 3 Different size (Small like the Ariadna Kazak-USA frame / Nomads Taskmasters / Yujing SWAT // Big as TAGS // Super BIG as "Megalodon" from Defiance); likely differentiated by Heads (each different one signifying different "Bonus" like Better Sensor Arrays or "Enhanced Reaction Time") and Weapons (one for each Arm, and One "Shoulder Pod", TWO for bigger ones). . .

    While not "Factory Producer Option" many people that followed that stuff said they will Magnetize the Custom Parts; Gunpods and Heads to allow some sort of "Quick Customization" of the Robots on the Battlefield. . .

    . . . . . .

    Why not could be done similar for this TAG Deathmatch. . .

    Not know if at all viable as a "Factory Build Option" but maybe could be EASIER to magnetize parts of a CHEAP Metal Models could be offered with MANY possible Options to mount, also RULEWISE allowing some Pan-O Mech mounting, with some issues, a Yujing Piece salvaged from a Battlefield. . .

    So could be a sort of "Paramilitary Garage Game" where "Sport Teams" (who could, or could not, be sponsored by their "Origin Culture" Military) employ BOTH as a "Pressure Discharge" for Retired Pilot to still hone their skills or "Headhunting" for Young Talents that could be useful for the Military Efforts on the Paradiso Front. . . . . .

    . . . . .

    This is even if CB just decide this Game is "Just Aristeia With Mecha Suits". . . . .
     
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  18. Vocenoctum

    Vocenoctum Well-Known Member

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    I'm assuming each player will control 1 or 2 TAG's, and my theory is that the core game will be rules/ terrain/ obstacles/ Megalodron-stuff, plastic or cardboard. Perhaps with a couple alt-sculpted TAGs in it, but certainly not ALL of them for the core. Then reinforcement packs offering other TAGs with a discount.

    Assuming base set is terrain/ board & a couple TAGS, with an add on/ expansion for the Megalodron stuff (or fortification/ turrets style stuff). I think the main thing I'm hoping for is a selection of pilots that give their TAG a different ability or something.
     
  19. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Pilots being able to leap out of stricken TAGs and try to get to another one like in Titanfall would be extremely cool.
     
  20. Vocenoctum

    Vocenoctum Well-Known Member

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    I also like the image of a pilot hopping out to try to fix their machine while others are distracted, or his team distracts whatever the main thing is.

    Another idea I just had, we need monsters. Don't the Raicho/ Morat have to hunt a big thing to prove their worth? I want to see a giant lizard/ squid/ whatever. (Or, at least rules for it to use other games models.)
     
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