1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Things I'm Loving and Not Loving Part Deuce: Electric Boogaloose

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Keyrott, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Keyrott

    Keyrott Nomad Handyman

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    1,015
    So I haven't posted aside from in my dossier and army wallpaper stuff in a while, as I haven't been playing much as of late. I liked posting this last time as I liked seeing what other people were liking and disliking in comparison to me. All of this is personal opinion, and I am very much an average player, so take this with a grain of salt. I like to occasionally participate in the community in words rather than pictures ;) That being said,

    Things I'm Loving

    Mixed Links:

    I still am really liking the idea of multiple troops from the same army being able to bring mixed and varied skills, weapons and options to link teams so that it's not always the same 5 guys in a link together. I like it thematically and while it may invalidate certain options in blatant specialization like a Vet Kazak AP HMG being able to join Line Kazaks instead of the much punier Line Kazak AP HMG, you still have the option to use the latter if you want to save points. I like the idea of a Vet Kazak or an Aquila or other heavily armored veterans being able to help out their less-seasoned and armored compatriots, but that's more something I enjoy on a thematic and fluffy level. Still hoping for a Blackjack Special Haris :O

    "Inspired" characters aren't as blatant right now:

    I don't like blatantly copied characters because I appreciate someone using reference photos to draw as opposed to pretty much tracing something. I hated the Kuroshi Rider and the Not-Suicide Squad because it took too many elements from the source material that a paint job, with no other modification, was being shown and they may as well have been a figure of the original. A couple I noticed recently was Raoul Spector, I think a nod to Marc Spector or Moon Knight, or the Deva in the Dakini SWC box having Pokemon's Jesse's hair (Possibly, but so did the old deva it was replacing so maybe just a style choice). However, they're nods instead of vigorously shaking the head up and down.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Faction releases: We now have a better idea of what an entire faction is going to include with Varuna, Ramah, Invicibles, OSS and TAK being released. We are still missing White Banner and Svalarheima, but we have so much more to think about and see than we did a couple years ago. I like to think about investing in an entire army as opposed to just sectorials as the shared Remotes and Support Packs means it's easier to collect a sectorial of the army you're already collecting than switching to an entirely other army, and the sectorial releases paint a bigger picture for what you're getting into. I'm having a lot of fun listbuilding with all manner of different armies to try and suss out my next investment.

    Aesthetically cool units:

    I'm very much enjoying the aesthetic direction a lot of the new units are taking, there's not much that's come out that I've thought "Dang that's ugly". Most everything has looked cool and made me want to get the minis. I particularly enjoy the Daoying hacker, the female Zulu Cobra and Perseus. My least favorite is probably the Schemers from the Spiral Corps box.

    Positive Rules Changes:

    Guard and Symbiomate changes both seemed good to me, making Guard more viable and making Symbiomates more balanced with counterplay (being forced to pop them whenever successful shots are made against them along with the chance to low-roll armor makes it feel more fun to play against while still being a strong tool. Guard changes are also cool for thinking about the increased burst and damage, you have another unit that fights alongside the main character adding attacks and making those attacks harder to keep from doing damage, love it.

    Things I'm Not Loving:

    Total Immunity changes (thematically):

    I don't think I like the changes to Total Immunity (Very new change, haven't seen it in practice much) I don't like the fact that Dog Warriors or Chimeras or Namurr are somehow now immune to monofilament, at least fluff wise I don't see how those units would withstand being sliced in half with a mono blade or minced by mono mines. I think the existing counterplay for TI in flash pulses or Mono or Stun or Viral (even though Dog warriors still have it) was good and meant you had options to deal with units with those skills. I also see how "Total" is confusing if several ammunition types got past it, but it still kinda irks me. I don't see why it needed to be changed aside from making rules more consistent with their naming i.e. when they changed the low/zero vis naming on smoke grenades and zero-vis/eclipse grenades.

    Fatality Level 2:

    I don't think I'm in the minority when I say I don't like Fatality Level 2. It's for the same reason that I didn't think Symbiomates were fun to play against before, it tells your opponent that I don't care about how well you rolled or if you got a lot of hits, my 1 crit or my 1 symbiomate negates all of that damage unless you can crit me back. I'm already at double crit chance as well as both Tarik and Sheskiin being able to get to B5 against either a B1 or B2 ARO. It seems power-creep-y to me and I'm not much of a fan.

    CB Not Giving Me Full Resolution Dossiers for literally every unit past and present, I can only do so much and I have a lot of feeling about this:

    For Shame

    (Jk I love your art CB crew no ban plz go easy)

    What do you guys loving and not loving from CB recently with the Torrent of new updates and releases?

     
    #1 Keyrott, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,280
    Likes Received:
    7,837
    I like the Total Immunity change (though I can agree with that Monofilament should probably ignore Immunities completely) and I dislike the Guard changes because it's still fairly pointless to have as a separate skill where it could have adequately been replaced with Martial Arts 1 or 3 with an increase in PH (yes, yes, that would affect other things as well, but TBH those two characters aren't exactly top of the food chain)

    Otherwise I mostly or even fully agree with the OP
     
    Balewolf, LaughinGod and Keyrott like this.
  3. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    741
    I don't like the ongoing arms race and how it has negatively impacted my lists diversity because of stupidly cost-efficient ARO units being all over the place. Being screwed by a bad table/mission/faction combo has never been easier...
     
  4. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    I think Special Triads are a massive step backwards for Tohaa design and hope they don't permeate into any further "real" Tohaa release.

    There, I said it. The Kriigel/Reex Special triad and Kiel-San special triads have awful impacts for those units, and if they were just regular triads, would introduce good, healthy internal balance competitions both in Spiral Corps and in vanilla Tohaa. The Reex are basically useless in vanilla but they would be an interesting (though generally worse) competitor with the Makaul in vanilla as triad fillers, and the Kiel-San would be a really interesting competitor for Neema (and Ectros in Vanilla) if it could Triad. Similar costs, but Neema comes with higher WIP and LT skills, whereas the Kiel-San would be an interesting fire superiority piece if it wasn't pigeonholed into those godawful options. Also given the trajectory of BS in the game, making Tricore available to vanilla tohaa wouldn't be that scary really. Sukeul would just look like a slightly pricier but generally better Kamau with Tricore, and it's far from the strongest shooting link so far.

    CB really needs to say explicitly whether the removal of Saito's specialist operative profile in JSA was intentional or not.

    Their silence is deafening on that one. It's been heavily discussed already on the JSA subforum so I see no reason to comment further here.
     
    ChoTimberwolf, WiT?, Berjiz and 2 others like this.
  5. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,315
    Likes Received:
    2,122
    I dont like how confusing many mixed fireteams are.

    I like the change in the Total Inmunity rule, but at the same time, i dont like that they only put vulnerability to the Dog Warriors. Karakuris and Tsun Ze should have EM vulnerability, tohaa's symbios fire vulnerability... Now is easier to apply, but i prefer the old version.

    I dont like that still are several sectorials without access to a tag for certain missions.

    I dont like that new rules only stay in new armies (like Tactical Sense, Lieutenant Lv 2, fatality...) and dont spread to clasic armies.

    I like Dahshat and ForeCo creation.
     
    inane.imp, Phlyk, BLOODGOD and 2 others like this.
  6. Narkano

    Narkano Armed Shiba-Inu

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    60
    Things I like:
    I like how much there is to explore as far as armies and play styles go. Before I never would have touched a CA army, but the new Shasvastii have me interested.
    I like that I'm excited to throw my NCA and Vanilla PanO out on the table again (the changes to PanO since fall 2018 have been phenomenal).
    I like that Foreign Company exists.

    Mixed links are by and large a net good, no more do I have leave my beloved Bagh Mari on the shelf for a tournament because I can't justify them over a Regulars core, to me this strengthens the ability to bring the cool looking troops you got into a faction to have access to.

    Things I dislike:
    That said I hope they slow down the frenetic pace at which they've been releasing new content, with the conclusion of this book trilogy hopefully we'll see a slower steady release schedule to catch the model line up with the army lists. Let the community kinda of settle back into a place where people know the armies and the rules really well.

    Fatality L2, hopefully it goes the way of the Symbiomate, where it gets toned down to something that isn't an auto-include.
     
  7. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    676
    They already did, several times, it is intentional, it's staying this way, it was supposed to be this way all the time and you had him as Specialist by mistake.
     
    Xeurian, Solar, chromedog and 2 others like this.
  8. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    When and where? All I have seen is an unconfirmed screencap from their Facebook chat (probably not the best source) and PsychoticStorm (who does not speak on behalf of CB in terms of the rules) saying it should never have been there. CB has yet to officially confirm this in any way.

    And it's frankly difficult to believe they would have given him to us by mistake for an entire year.
     
    #8 meikyoushisui, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
    Hecaton likes this.
  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    9,332
    Why not?

    It took an entire year before the Combi+LSG price change got reflected on Bolts (first seen on Aragoto), and ~6 months for the Drop Bear price change was reflected (first seen on Yadu).
     
  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    I think it is a false equivalence to compare price changes that were made later being rolled back into earlier things and something that had already existed for a year being flat out removed.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,698
    Likes Received:
    4,564
    In a related note to some missions giving bonus VPs for TAGs - they really need to take a hard look at some of the ITS missions. Some of them just shouldn't exist (Highly Classified, I'm looking at you).
     
    barakiel, WiT? and Keyrott like this.
  12. SpectralOwl

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    896
    Likes:
    Mixed Links; allows for more variety in repetitive Sectorial lists and new inventive tactics.
    Scenario Design; ITS seems to be getting better and better; there are now options for buttons and fighting or both that are fun.
    Actually Playing the Game; Infinity remains fun, no matter the complaint of the month in the forums, and that's awesome.
    Using My Brain; everything in Infinity, even Fat 2, can be managed by even the worst factions by playing smart and doing the unexpected.

    Dislikes:
    Salad Links; Line Trooper Core Links that can have so much crap in them that they don't have an actual Line Trooper, or exist solely to ubercharge one pricey piece like the inexplicable standalone MSV snipers aren't fun or thematic.
    Treatment of TAGs; Used for OP in some missions, some factions don't have them and can't get a perfect score. Highly pricy, less resilient than a Karakuri. Vulnerable to attack vectors nothing else is, don't offer anything special offensively. CB pls fix.
     
  13. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,988
    Likes Received:
    2,647
    Likes:
    More Tohaa profiles.
    A new NA2 Sectorial that let me use my Tohaa models.

    Dislikes:
    Discontinued Tohaa models.
    No Sakiel box in sight.
     
    kanluwen, Cothel and Keyrott like this.
  14. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,498
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    Likes:
    The Nomad CJC and PanO NCA/Vanilla buffs.
    Varuna is pretty damn cool.
    MO is also pretty damn cool.
    Invincible Army is also pretty damn cool.
    The fact that a lot of pretty damn cool HI related stuff happened is pretty damn cool.
    The newer REM sculpts are pretty damn cool.
    Mixed fireteams add potential for a variety of fireteam compositions that might not 100% of the time be ''The four Fusiliers and Don Kamau.''
    Retroactively giving minor touch-ups to older sectorials/factions that are being shafted by new changes.
    The almighty saviors of the State Empire, the Daoying Operative Control Unit!

    Dislikes:
    The excessive extremes of mixed links/Wildcards. I still think it's kinda dumb to have X unit fireteam without X unit in it or units that count as X for making an X fireteam.
    CB buff Guijia pls.
    Fat2 should still be changed or handled better somehow.
    The half-baked feeling many of the retroactive army/sectorial buffs have had: MAF could still have been nudged even slightly further, MO could still use a bandage or two and CJC Wildcats could have had some looking at too for fairness sake. Also the slow rate of these changes still leaving several of these factions behind, but that's another thing entirely.
     
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    5,919
    Likes Received:
    9,332
    If CB is messing with the pricing formula and wants us to believe that they actually follow it, they need to roll out changes in the formula to everything affected by the change at the same time.

    It's honestly not that hard to make work.
     
  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    4,149
    Things I like;

    1) Most of what they're doing tbh

    2) Suryats are still PH 13 lol

    Things I dislike

    1) There are still some silly unintended skills interactions and a (very small) number of profiles just feel a bit unenthusiastic and duff.

    2) the Tech-Bee is still pretty terrible as a design, in my personal view.
     
    Keyrott likes this.
  17. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2017
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    434
    Great thread! I think I agree with about 95% of the initial post.

    In my own words: I think that most of the big picture decisions taken by CB in the last two years helped to improve the game. Drastically increasing faction count without letting SKUs explode certainly makes for a more flexible and interesting game. I think most of what is perceived by some as a power creep is more a flexibility and fun-to-play creep. At least to me, the courtesy updates to old sectorials help a lot to mitigate that even though. My only criticism would be some individual rule changes (Fatality lvl2 feels like a mistake, Saito specialist for JSA please, total immunity vs normal ammo,...), which I hopefully will get fixed. Long term, I feel the rules bloat should be reduced, but that’s something CB has acknowledged to bei on their agenda, so I‘m not really worried.
     
  18. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    382
    As always, everything is a mixed bag, and generally feeling the game is going in a positive direction!

    Mixed Links
    Like:
    - Everyone is Tohaa Now. Mixed links all over the place is a much more interesting design than forcing five of one trooper. Best example is MSV troopers who can join another link so you are not paying for five sets of redundant MSV.

    Dislike:
    - Forced and clear optimal design, IE a single MSV Kamau loadout clearly designed to create the same Fusilier link team in every game.
    - Using mixed links as a bandaid for the problem that is nonscaling equipment costs - the MSV combi troopers wouldn't be so bad if they paid less for the visor!
    - Going too deep with Ghulam links with no Ghulams, MSV/smoke links, and things like letting the Tactical Sense Zuyong out into other sectorials.

    Year of the Tohaa
    Like:
    - Symbiomate change has stopped the complaints.
    - Symbiobombs now more viable due to mates not being an autoinclude.
    - A few new Tohaa profiles and one with proper pheroware.
    - Finally a noncamo skirmisher that seems decent.

    Dislike:
    - Lots of iffy design decisions for Spiral. Why create models that are so similar to existing Tohaa stuff, just for Spiral Corps? Did Reex really need to exist? What about the new crappy spitfire heavy, in a faction of spitfire heavies?
    - Makaul box discontinue is a huge red flag for the future of the faction. You literally cannot convince me that Tohaa is okay unless this discontinue was for a resculpt.
    - Symbiobombs still one shot, fail the WIP and they're gone. Its too swingy, would rather they had a higher cost but several ammunition or expired on one success not one shot.
    - Everyone is Tohaa now. Triads are not very relevant when everyone has a mixed core and a mixed haris.

    Infinity Tournament System
    Like:
    - Gets better (translation: less bad) every year. I no longer resent playing it
    - Classifieds are better (translation: less bad) and are mainly tie breakers. Not present in every mission 'just because'

    Dislike:
    - "Spend 2 orders get a point" season rule is boring and encourages spam
    - Still really iffy mission design. Only so many times I can play decapitation and watch my Designated Target be auto-killed by an impersonator on the first order and think its not a crap mission.
    - Classifieds still exist at all.
    - Missions have no flavour and often don't make sense. I often find it hard to remember what the heck is going on. And don't get me started on the nonsense way they list the scoring for the mission...

    Tactical Awareness Etc
    Like:
    - I approve of the idea of limited insertion lists exceeding 10 orders
    - Skills such as LT LV2 and NCO are very interesting, though I disapprove of how these often appear together simply to make a fireteam more rambo.
    Dislike:
    - Did Imperial Army really need to hit like 17 orders on their link team? Thats just taking the piss.
    - Tactical Awareness on random specific profiles. Who the hell is going to take the MULTI Zuyong or whatever now when this other one generates two orders?
    - Tactical Awareness Zuyong existing in two factions. Its ok as a one faction gimmick, I feel it has no place in Dashat.

    And the straight like/dislikes;
    - Love the proliferation of NA2 armies. I feel the more armies the better generally as long as they are real designs that do different things.
    - Loving the models generally. Spiral is mostly iffy, but things like the Zencha are fantastic
    - Bounty Hunters being linkable in a faction is super cool
    - Stealth edits to Infinity Army are very bad form, hugely disapprove. No I am not referring to Saito, but shit like finding out randomly that this unit has had a new profile for three months, or that my current list is illegal because that unit now has a SWC cost etc.
    - Mimetism and ODD are still bullshit forcefields instead of camouflage effects. Still waiting for a rules change to make them feel otherwise - ie, only getting the effect if in cover, or outside a certain range.
    - Trees still hard counter link teams because reasons is not good rule design
     
  19. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2017
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    358
    Infinity is a great game, but right now it suffers from bloated rules syndrome. Lots of redundant rules, like guardian. Appearance of specialized rules, like Fatality and Full Auto, that seems more like a ploy to sell models - despite the models really sell themselves. Lots of oddities, like V:NWI working/not working for HI, or how dog warriors become immune to anti dog warrior weapons. Not to mention how specialists has become generic, and there is little point in bringing a doctor over a ‘specialist’. Not to mention the fairly messy hacking rules.

    An N4 is needed rather than adding more rule extensions.
     
    Hos, xagroth, ChoTimberwolf and 2 others like this.
  20. dalaule

    dalaule Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    29
    You're thinking that they should just consolidate some skills, like Martial Arts and Guardian, into one skill? I don't think there's anyone with both skills (I didn't really look, tho), but they do have different applications, as the boni aren't similar.