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The Steel Phalanx Wishlist

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Iver, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    I feel like Atalanta and Teucer has shifted roles. In N3 Teucer was the more defensive of the two, being more bulky and with a scarier gun, while Atalanta was more of an active hunter. Now she'll be sitting on a roof in total reaction while he'll be running around trying to ping wounds off things with his feuerbach. Too bad he lost his C+. Would make him better at that role.
     
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  2. Methuselah

    Methuselah Well-Known Member

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    I think triangulated fire is a real edge case. The majority of the time he will be shooting at something in cover from beyond 24" (+3 for range, -3 for cover, shooting on 14s). Seems to me like its a skill he's unlikely to use and is not adding much.
     
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  3. Sigeric

    Sigeric Irregular WB

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    I'd say the SP return has been good overall... at least at first glance, the characters being the stars of the show, of course. Many exciting possibilities, but a shame about our main man Achilles and his ok-but-not-great statline. When I see Ajax I see the holy terror that Achilles should be, but in the rough. The lack of generic HI and TAG was to be expected, since the named guys are the one filling their shoes.

    I'm a little bit underwhelmed by the generic profiles (yet they can be linked without characters, which is a slight buff). That is to say:

    Myrmidons: The chain myrmidon is still a good tropper and decent value (although I think they are point-for-point worse than the daturazi), but why would you ever pick a spitfire myrm over, say, Phoenix? Or two combi myrms over Machaon or Ajax and a chain myrm?

    Thorakitai: They are good, moving at 4-4, decent profiles and I don't need to pay character tax in order to link them (or I could fit a wildcard in there and push forward). Nesaie is... fair? NCO is good and her price is not too high, could cover a good portion of your backyard with her 360º visor and can make for a decent secondary attack piece, and the same goes for Thrasymedes.

    Agema: Pass. They don't compare too well to things like Djanbazan, Kamau, Hortlak, etc. (at least in my eyes). Not even shock immune, and that is the new hotness nowadays. Maybe the mk12 in suppresive could work but... characters are sexier. I gave some folks PTSD with Atalanta paired with a humble chain myrmidon throwing smoke besides her. Now that I can put linked Phoenix there instead, this is going to cause some serious headache in those "open concept" tables. Teucer could be better with feuerbach on the active turn? I'd have to try, but at his point bracket, I think Atalanta is better overall. If you already got her, then maybe.

    Ekdromoi: Sure. Decent profiles, and I would take this hacker over the myrmidon hacker. Now we can combo them with Scylla EVO. Shame about the frenzy, I expect them to die horribly after their (hopefully) glorious entrance. This is one of the few times I'd field the generic trooper over the character. Diomedes is fine, but a little too brittle for the price tag and could die to one of the many many many many shock weapons in the game.

    Dactyls: Again, fine, but it's hard to justify the doctor when Machaon is around, or the engineer when the thorakitai is cheaper and can link. I guess their unique selling point is the adhesive launcher, or a doctor if Machaon isn't around. Never tried Acmon myself, but now I can see reasons to pick him.


    So yeah, I think SP is ok. I put this list together under the principle "this worked in n3 well enough, lets change it for n4 and see how it goes":

    gr4Nc3RlZWwtcGhhbGFueAEggSwCAQoAgmABAQAAgl8BAgAAgkwBBAAAgkwBBAAAglEBAQAAglEBAQAAglMBAQAAglMBAQAAgl0BAgAAgmQBAQACBQCC0QECAACCWAEJAACCWAEFAACCWAEBAACCWAEHAA==

    We'll see how it goes.
     
  4. Methuselah

    Methuselah Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I am late to the party here, but in N3 it was mathematically advantages to choose MA3, over MA4, when fighting other CC specialists. So MA4 is better in N4 for those encounters (because you gain the additional DMG). However MA4 in N3 allowed Achilles to put 6, DMG 15 saves on things like TAGs, units who are not CC specialists, and AC2s/Armory doors. 6 DMG 15 beats 3 DMG 18 saves in expected wounds all the way up to ARM 12. Losing the option is a nerf for Achilles. Additionally, Achilles CC stat stayed the same while most other non-CC specialist CC stats went up. It’s a minor point, but his CC ability, and all other CC specialists, went down, relative to most everyone else.

    Edit: corrected spelling
     
    #104 Methuselah, Nov 17, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  5. Methuselah

    Methuselah Well-Known Member

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    31 pt, wildcard, tac awareness Acmon looks good for most link teams. Combining him with Hector's 3 orders can make an 18 order list. Seems pretty good.
     
  6. D_acolyte

    D_acolyte Well-Known Member

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    So I almost feel that a review of what we got in still phalanx should be a separate post.

    I feel Agema, Teucer and Thamyris loose out. Agema just do not do enough to be useful in my meta, lot of cores that can just out shoot it. Teucer gaining triangulated fire really does very little unless he is shooting at people in cover and suppression. Thamyris is just the same which is to say if you need a budget hacker sure you can use him but a little more gets you a Myrmidon hacker or Scylla.

    Scylla makes me scratch my head, I was expecting a KHD and what I got was an Evo Hacker. I feel she will have more play in vanilla then in SP because at least my experience is SP does not use remotes as rambos.

    Ekdromoi, Thorakitai and Myrmidon are all about the same as they where. So if you think you will see a lot of MSV links take Thorakitai otherwise Myrmidon.

    Ajax, Patoculus, and Diomedes all got buffs. Ajax especially is a much better guided missile now. Patoculus is now a HI with true 2 wounds and can serve as a budget Achilles. Diomedes can come in on his order, then use the LT order and rambo till he dies or kills everything. I wish he had shock immune but I feel he is still useful.

    All Myrmidon characters are shock immune so that is nice.

    Construction of lists got a little looser.
    Alke, Patoculus, and Diomedes are all NCO. So now we do not need Hector or Achilies as LT to use our LT order.
    we have 3 wild cards that can form links around them: Acmon, Hector, and Thrasymedes. This is nice for playing with fire team comps.
    Hippolyta is also a wild card but I am not a fan of her.

    I think some of it needs some more work but it is a solid base.

    PS. totally forgot Drakios is a person, I guess he is ok.
     
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  7. StuporMundi75

    StuporMundi75 Member

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    I wonder if the total lack of mid-field skirmishers/camo for SP is a bigger issue than in N3? Do you guys have any thoughts on that?
     
  8. Hiereth

    Hiereth AI Artichoke

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    Scylla is an easy winner to me in this update, but outside of her, Ajax and Patroclus nothing too significant.

    Teucer is a huge down for me, was really into his marksmanship gimmick towards the end of N3 /N3.5 but as he stands it's hard to want to take him over other msv for me.

    Agema really feel shafted, it really wouldn't have been a big deal to have 4-man linked msv2 people have much worse stuff going on.

    Acmon wildcard is very nice, big fan.

    Diomedes is a let down for me, I was hoping for something more to change on him. It's a lot of point for a bs12 gun without shock immune. ekdromoi remained about the same which is all I could ask for.

    I think I'm happy overall but Teucer is really putting a damper on things personally.
     
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  9. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    We got Andromeda and Ajax on the midfield, what more could we want xD
     
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  10. StuporMundi75

    StuporMundi75 Member

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    Just noticed that joplite Achilles also has that :)
     
  11. Sigeric

    Sigeric Irregular WB

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    I don't really think midfield Ajax is worth the cost of a Lamedh. However, since we can use the impetuous order from Eudoros and Hippolyta to throw smoke, then Ajax and Penny can surge forward. Hell, you could even reform an enomotarchos with those three and lose impetuous to benefit from cover. That and the Steel Rain ekdromoi spam with Scrylla are two things I want to try out.
     
  12. jmmelo

    jmmelo Well-Known Member

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    I just want to confirm something, it was even mentioned before on this thread, under N4´s Enomotarchos, we can mix Dactyls, Thorakitai and Myrmidons on the same fireteam? I reread the rule and there is nothing saying we can´t. I think this is pretty huge. We can actually now field teams with a CC beast + smoke (Myrmidons and characters), heavy weapons (Thorakitai) and a dedicated doctor/engineer (Dactyl).

    I can see myself being able to field 3 fireteams now.
     
  13. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I'm not sold on SP's viability yet, everything looks good on paper but there is a lot about this edition (shock spam and pretty much every model now carrying a DTW) that tanks said viability hard. However there's enough here that there may be something worth building.

    SI across the board for all the heroes is a long overdue buff, and there are a bunch of small QOL tweaks here and there which are great.

    Pity Patroclus went from one of the best gunfighters in the sectorial to permanent shelf warmer (Yay for the generalised idiot proofing of the game taking away fun stuff), trading a spitfire for HMG on a platform that wants to push into the midfield to fight in CQB is awful, but no longer being able to slap anything and everything without a visor with a -12 by just existing is a colossal nerf to the point of unplayable (Still has some applications as a horrifically expensive vanguard piece for clearing out deployable weapons) better off finding the extra 10 points and taking achilles or hector now.
     
  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    You can't because by general fireteam rules you can only link troopers from the same units, unless explicitly stated otherwise. It's separate Dactyl, Thorakitai, or Myrmidon links, with some characters being able to join one of them, and Wildcards being able to join any of them. But no mixing and matching.
     
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  15. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    However as far as I can tell you no longer need a character to form a team.
     
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  16. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    Copied from a Facebook discussion on the same topic:

    Against a single wound model, N4 Achilles chance to deal a wound is higher, and take a wound is lower, than N3 Achilles. N4 is categorically stronger.

    Against a multiwound model like a HI, Achilles chance to deal a wound is higher and take a wound is lower than N3 Achilles, and his overall expected damage output in a single order is the same (with a slight bias toward N4 depending on ARM of the troop). N4 is generally stronger.

    Against a multiwound model like a TAG, Achilles chance to deal a wound is higher and take a wound is lower than N3 Achilles, but his likelihood of blowing it out all the way to dead in a single order is diminished (he's more likely to need two or three orders, but those two or three orders are less to produce any unexpected failures). Only here does the higher ceiling N3 MA4 had materialise, and is where the relative strength of rule across the two editions becomes most subjective. I would personally prefer N3 MA4 because if I've gotten a model into CC I'm usually most concerned about the blowout failure states, buuuut I acknowledge that it's a matter or preference, and for Achilles especially rather than single-sound pieces the likelihood of a failure state materialising is much lower.
     
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  17. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    And good riddance.
     
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  18. jmmelo

    jmmelo Well-Known Member

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    I get what you are saying, but that bit about same unit is not stated anywhere in the rules, is it?

    RAW (https://infinitythewiki.com/Fireteam:_Enomotarchos) is:

    FIRETEAM: ENOMOTARCHOS

    Troopers possessing this Special Skill can compose a Fireteam of up four members if
    they belong to a Sectorial Army List.

    AUTOMATIC SKILL
    Optional

    REQUIREMENTS
    ► The Trooper possessing this Special Skill must belong to a Sectorial Army List.
    ► When forming the Fireteam, the owner of this Special Skill must be part of that
    Fireteam: Enomotarchos.
    EFFECTS
    ► This Special Skill allows a Fireteam: Enomotarchos to be formed, following the
    rules of Fireteam composition.
    ► It is not compulsory that the owner of this Special Skill be the Team Leader of
    the Fireteam: Enomotarchos.

    It is also not clarified in the charts... I do agree is too good to be true, but without a FAQ I believe it would be legal. 125494244_3608705932484985_6443919627393171634_o.jpg 125534868_3608705942484984_9219770414090640327_o.jpg
     
  19. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    Rules Annex, page 5:

    upload_2020-11-18_1-39-38.png
     
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  20. jmmelo

    jmmelo Well-Known Member

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    I was considering Enomotarchos a special fireteam... That seems to be wrong :(
     
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