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The Rocket Ratnik: AKA Heavy D Usability thread

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by TriggerPuller9000, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    [​IMG]

    Oh Yeaaaaaaaaah koolaidman.jpg

    If you're reading this, you probably already own this hefty fella. I'll admit - I've been waiting for TAK to drop since 2012, when I was first introduced to Infinity, and I was a little disappointed in the sectorial. A long-time Vanilla Ariadna veteran, I was stuck focusing on pieces that were fantastic in Vanilla. At first glance, we Kazaks have increased AVA of the Kazak power units, but after playing TAK for a while, I found myself taking less of them rather than more of them. A prime example is the staple Spetsnaz HMG - whereas I always double down in Vanilla, I found it tricky to run more than one in TAK. The missing link in that post-release mindset was the proposition of new units. TAK units had been around forever in Vanilla, but what about the newcomers?

    Enter the Rocketnik...the HRL Ratnik...the Heavy^4 (heavyweight, heavy rocket launcher, heavy shotgun, heavy pistol). It's heavy...I get that.

    What is its role? Its primary weapon (which we speculated would be a double Katyusha or something) is actually a single HRL. Its secondary weapons are entirely redundant, and focused within the 0-8 rangeband. If you're focused on winning FTF rolls, you're probably slinging Heavy Shotgun slugs, otherwise the other two weapons are incredibly situational. So where does it shine?

    Duo. And not with another Ratnik, but rather with a Wildcard Trooper, specifically the Veteran Kazak. After a bit of experimentation, I've found this duo fixes a lot of my problems.

    Tartary Army Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]2
    RATNIK Heavy Rocket Launcher, Heavy Shotgun / Heavy Pistol, Trench-hammer, Knife. (2 | 44)
    VETERAN KAZAK (X Visor) T2 Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 38)
    2 SWC | 82 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    The Vet T2 rifle X visor fixes a number of problems for the Rocketnik, specifically the 8-16 rangeband gap and the close defense issue. With his LFT, the Vet Kazak can handle ODD/TO threats, and SSL2 allows him to cover the tight lanes that would put the Rocketnik out of LOF. In board control missions, this team is particularly adept, providing 82 points of hard-to-shift staying power.



    In summary, I was extremely skeptical of the Rocket Ratnik...compared to other factions, his degrading functionality with damage leaves a lot to be desired. However, in TAK he fills a critical gap. While he competes with high-30s low-40s units for active turn shooting (Tankhunter APHMG, Vet Kazak APHMG, Spetsnaz HMG), he is more survivable and packs a bigger punch up close.

    Tovarich comrades, and a vodka toast to our heavy boi.
     
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  2. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that they are redundant. IMO the Heavy Pistol is a really good addition. If Double action in CC is overkill or the Shotgun would do nothing. For example if you are shooting on Alguaciles. AP wount work since the have only ARM 1 but shock will kill the outright. The same goes in CC with the Trench hammer.
     
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  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The Shotgun is more likely to win the F2F roll and ignores the +3 ARM cover bonus though.

    Against a 1W target with NWI or Dogged I might choose the Heavy Pistol for shock, and against a 1W in CC I'm going to choose it because it's not worth using a Trench Hammer ammo on, though the Ratnik's CC is so poor it likely won't matter what I pick.

    But against an Alguacile? The higher DAM, better range bonus, potential to hit multiple targets, and ignoring cover ARM means I'm picking the Shotgun every time.
     
  4. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    If the rocket Ratnik had dual HRLs he would be Ok. BS13 with Burst 3 is ok on the active, just not very reliable especially when the enemy has a vision mod. B2 is *really* a crapshot though. The Heavy shotgun is ok, as the +6 when under 8" range is pretty reasonable to win a ftf, while the heavy pistol is... useful in certain circunstances.

    Overall, the Ratnik suffers from CB overvaluing ARM quit a bit. And being in the same army where a Vet Kazak exists.
     
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  5. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    I like the Molotok profile, it's a good cannon ball to throw to the enemy lines. But the shotgun one feels quite situational, it has good range bands but burst 2 in all the weapons is quite limiting, It could work if you play in a close quarters map and there is no hakers around.

    Burst 3 HRL could make the profile mutch more usable with the proper price adjustments.
    And the trench hammer feels quite gimmicky. The concept is strange and game play wise is even more situational, it can save you in a pinch but overall I don't think it adds that much charm or unlikeness.

    I would love to see a profile with autocannon the miniature could be amazing.
     
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  6. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    While I agree that B3 would make the Rocket Rat more useful in the active turn, I think his point of use doesn't require it. His primary purpose is to drag a Vet Kazak into the midfield using Duo and set up a roadblock that is a pain to deal with. In that application he is B1 with all of his weapons anyway and the Vet will be on Suppression.

    Nearly all of our ARO pieces are W1, maybe with a visual mod. However, none of them have the staying power of ARM9 in cover plus Dogged to fall back on. As a roadblock the Vet is great too but slightly less resilient against conventional weapons.
     
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  7. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    I have yet to see it on the table, but a supressing Vet Kazak HMG with a Ratnik HRL behind it would be basically unmovable.
     
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  8. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Just to toss my 5 eurocents in: I believe the HRL Ratnik is best fit for a Limited Insertion list where you need relatively expensive and accordingly tough troopers and quality ARO pieces come at a premium. In T1 (no SF mode) HRL is one of the best ARO weapon, beacuse no-one likes fire templates coming at you...
     
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  9. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    Armor somewhat rightfully gets a bad rap in infinity compared to negative visual modifiers as rolling for armor means you've lost a face-to-face roll. However, the Ratnik's initial Arm 6 means that when he inevitably loses, well the majority, of his F2F rolls, he's got a good chance of sticking to his post, with the ability to go Dogged even if he needs to hold a position. A very solid contrast to the 1 wound, low armor folks that most Ariadna lists consist of. And as has been posted above, since Ratniks can duo-link with Wildcard Vet Kazaks, you can rather order-efficiently move Ratnik/Vet pair to the mid field and just stick them in the centre, breaking the duo link with Vet Kazak suppression (though for my money, I'd use the Vet Kazak T2 rifle + X-visor to suppress, though the AP HMG can also work wonders.).
     
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  10. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Except you can just throw smoke and don't even have to move it...don't even have to tell you what kind of wonders can happen then.
    Or you just beat it using superior modifiers.
    Etc. Plenty of stuff to how to just dislodge or avoid that, and you just killed 1/3 of your opponent army and took out 4/6 SWC.
     
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  11. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was pretty clear I was just claiming it would be a strong choice not that it was literally undefeatable.

    A vet kazak HMG is a very powerful attack piece and the HRL Rat is a powerful ARO piece. Together they can make a strong pair especially with suppression. I was agreeing that op's suggestion the combo was solid.
     
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  12. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    The same goes for literally any model in Ariadna (no MSV2), or any model in the gaming facing down Eclipse Smoke. The savvy player will eliminate those threats T1, or create situations where they're protecting this duo with mines as they move up field.

    All said, my preferred partner for the Ratnik in a duo is the Vet T2 / X Visor. 0 SWC, better bands, and a LFT to boot.
     
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  13. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Depends about your play stile...ariadna has plenty of camo, mines, ambush camo etc. you just wasted few orders to, discover nothing, be blown by mine perhaps, uncover mine, but not you don't see it anymore because it's S0 etc.
    Savy player won't perhaps give you option that you can eliminate those threats T1.

    But we can go like this whole day, but enemy might do this, then I might do that, but then he might do this etc. So there is not really point to it. IF this combo works for someone, great ;)
     
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  14. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    I'm unable to see the ratnik as a good ARO piece, he can score a lucky hit but without suppression fire, mimetism or a 80+ range weapon it's going to be toasted in a couple of orders by the killers of the other team.

    The blackjack sniper it's a good aro piece, the tank hunter missile launcher can be a good aro piece if you are lucky, the veteran can set up suppression fire and block some fire lines but it's easy to nullify with warbands. A ratnick in the middle of the table is going to be easy prey, it could save a couple of hits but relying in armor is a bad idea in infinity.
     
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  15. SirGrumpyPants

    SirGrumpyPants A little grumpy

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    How are people going with running Ratniks? I've been struggling to write lists that include them... I find them really awkward to fit in. I look at them and wonder why I don't just take a Blackjack instead.
     
  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Feels like he'd be a good Xenotech carrier

    You need someone ruff and tuff, not linked, not a marker etc. That's actually a pretty limited selection in TAK! Also with his big beefyness he can stay alive long enough to get up there and drop the Xenoscanner.
     
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  17. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    I believe the Ratnik is best fit for LI lists where his high cost is less of a problem.
    Also burst of five in the active turn never hurts. That additional burst is pretty handy. Wheter it worths the 1.5 times cost is a question indeed.
     
    #17 Káosz Brigodéros, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  18. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    You only get the +1 burst in the active turn.
     
  19. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Huhh, my bad. Thank you! Original post amended.
     
  20. valukr

    valukr Well-Known Member

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    Looking to start TAK exclusively for this model, and patriotic zeal. Any updates on how people have been using this bad boy?

    I could see him being handy to coordinate and take down ARO targets with. This is all theory, as i do not play TAK/Ariadna, yet. However, I can see trying to break enemy ARO pieces with 1 wound infantry and getting unlucky could be crippling.