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The Anarchists Guidebook: Bakunin in N4

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Hachiman Taro, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I really think there's no point in comparing a Tsyklon with a pticher to a zero with a deployable repeater. That's very much a "why not both?" situation. They don't really compete with each other.

    Tsyklon with moderator pitcher is a bit more of a comparison because they compete for fireteam slots at least.

    However, on the topic of the chaksa, I still don't like this addition. I mean, a BS15 Burst 3 DAM 15 Autocannon is good on the active turn, probably better than anything else in the sectorial in terms of raw damage output, but that's assuming chaksas will be able to form a full core and we don't know that.

    And yes, it is definetely not better than a linked ML in ARO.
     
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  2. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Choice of whether to use something as an ARO piece comes down to how thorny it will be for the opponent to remove that piece. They can usually do it, the question is at what cost.

    If you are castling/turtling up during the reactive turn and the opponent has one good long approach, if you can use your other troops to make taking cover in that approach costly (like Zeros, mines, etc.), than leaving the Tsyklon out is fine. The same if you think protecting an objective like a supply box that the opponent could run away with would be worth the loss of the Tsyklon.

    If you have the SWC left for a Sin-Eater or a Zero Sniper to double up with that Tsyklon, covering the best places where the Tsyklon could be shot from in cover, more's the better.
     
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  3. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Chaksas in a ton of sectorials may be a case of a tool being put out there for a change to the game that we are not yet aware of. I am suspicious that we may be seeing a big uptick in armor in a special scenario again, a bit like Frostbyte or Show of Force were.
     
  4. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    It's still a die per pitched Repeater to roll which results in a fail in 20% to 25% of all attempts (5er-Core, ignoring any terrain vis MODs) versus the 0% risk to fail when deployed by the Zero.

    1. Well, the Feuerbach Tsyklon has a high impact weapon (one hit results in multiple armour saves) which makes the use of such a weapon about as effective as in the active turn. This makes it generally better for ARO duty than e.g. the Spitfire or Combi Rifle and thus I consider it (together with your already mentioned standard ARO pieces) a ARO piece, the same applies to the ML Grrl or the MSR Moderator.
    2. of course sometimes it's difficult to get the Zero through but then again it mostly depends on the mission and the table setup. A more dense Table blocks not only the opponent's LOFs but sometimes also the Tsyklon's. That's the Zero's advantage since It'l be able to deploy the repeater in the areas behind the LOF blocking terrain. Also most people I played against tend to keep their Skirmishers in the camouflaged state or don't want to risk normal shots thus they let them wait. Ocassional mines can be detrimental though :sweat_smile: All in all the Zero not only brings the Repeater but also these loveley E/M Mines which can be used further to cross the opponent's plans or to threaten the big pieces / Fireteams.
     
  5. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I feel like the Tsyklon (Feuerbach) is a little bit soft as a hard ARO piece in the first turn if you go second. It does have several advantages even there though.

    - The 360 visor makes it quite useful for overwatching your backline from AD etc.
    - The wide base can actually help it get lateral angles at attackers who push at you and pierce a forward zone defence, without looking directly at the enemy dep zone, which is where it's most likely to get crushed in a FTF from. It has a big advantage against short ranged alpha strikers it engages from long range laterally on your side of the board if you can set that up.
    - ARM6 in cover, double unconcious states, the ability to prone behind cover when taken unconcious, a punishing weapon if it snags a FTF win and very reliable repair means it's a dangerous order sink for your opponent that quite likely is recoverable with less orders than your opponent spent to put it down.

    Once you have supportware on it (from an EVO that helpfully also replenishes your pitchers as desired) it becomes a very strong fire superiority piece that can secure your freedom of movement, and impede your opponents. Especially so if their active long range shooters already had an unfortunate encounter with guided missiles from the sky.

    If I absolutely have to explode things in ARO I'd definately rather a Riot ML. But Im taking her as well anyway.
     
    #45 Hachiman Taro, Apr 29, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
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  6. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Man, I wish we could still start with an EVO program running for a command token. It wasn't a lot of complexity, and added a lot of power to REM units as board-control pieces when you go second. Really the evolution of Infinity since N2 has been to balance-out alpha striking, and an EVO program up even when you went second was a big deal.

    It's true that Riot MLs are the best ARO piece in Bakunin, but that's mainly down to having Hyperdynamics to make Dodging always a decent option, and MSV1 to see through smoke.

    But the game isn't always either-or, and you could have a Riot ML in a Haris -and- a Tsyklon in a link, or what ever other arrangement, and be just fine. That comes down to what tables you play on.
     
  7. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Of all the weird changes between the editions that made me think I misreading the rule book this was the one that left me most baffled. it honestly made no sense what so ever and with the other changes to hacking you would have thought that they would have let you be able to start with Fairy dust up.
     
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  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Particularly since the tools for dealing with a MM REM on T1 have significantly improved.

    People argued that a MM TR Bot on T1 would be OP in an environment where Grenzers, Kamaus and Bolts exist.
     
  9. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    One other thing about the Tsyklon - while its merits as a first turn ARO piece might be debatable, I think it's one of the few reliable active turn long range options Bakunin has (when linked). It's not high burst but B3 BS15 ignoring cover with supportware and excellent range is enough, and it cracks armour well which is a great boon in N4. The only other option that does this well is the Lizard for me, and it's double the price.

    HMGs aren't the go to as much in N4, and we don't have AP ones, and the active ones we do have outside the reaktion are expensive and hard to fit in a coherent list in my experience. And if you're going for the Reaktion it's a valid choice but I'd rather have the Tsyklon mostly in sectorial because it hits harder and links.
     
    #49 Hachiman Taro, May 1, 2021
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Lizards aren't available in TJC. TJC also gets the Grenzer and B3 AP with MSV is kinda about the same place as B3 AP+DA for cracking many high-Arm threats (both is certainly an option).

    Where you meaning to discuss BJC? BJC does lack active turn anti-ARM guns outside of the Tsyklon. Although, Spitfire Prowlers are surprisingly OK as anti-Armour (assuming that you can strip Cover).
     
  11. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    This is a BJC specific thread. I dunno how Tunguska got in there. Fixed now.
     
  12. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    upload_2021-5-14_16-39-50.png
    I think we did that aready but I somehow appreciate this kind of humor :D
    Too bad that there's no new link options with them.
     
    #52 Tristan228, May 14, 2021
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
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  13. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate their humor, but I'd appreciate it more if they would just bloody fix them.

    If a model isn't selling because its rules are dogshit, letting more people take it won't solve the problem of it being dogshit. It just lets more people smell it.

    And considering they can't even link in their home army (Tohaa) and have extremely limited options in their home sectorial (Spiral Corps) ANY link options were kind of a pipe dream.
     
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  14. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Man, I really, really hate that kind of 'biting the hand' humor.

    They like doing this kind of stuff, but it's not my jam.

    And yeah, chaksas are still bad :/
     
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  15. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic feeelthy casual

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    Before anyone else gets cross at CB, the author of that Discord comment was a community member, not a CB staffer AFAIK.
     
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  16. 1337Bolshevik

    1337Bolshevik Spite alone holds me aloft

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    Indeed, it was I that made that comment.
     
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  17. Angry Clown

    Angry Clown Well-Known Member

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    brainstorm man. you must be playing magic :P
     
  18. deltakilo

    deltakilo Bear of Butcher bay
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    This is a fantastic write up. On the money and super well written. Thanks mate.
     
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  19. SaladSnek

    SaladSnek New Member

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    Some design ideas for CB free of charge ;)

    give sin eaters sixth sense- if they couldn't be surprise shot/shot through smoke it might give some reason to pay for one over a TR bot.

    Make the reverence even middling good at CC (maybe something unique like CC-6 skill while keeping native CC 20) and dodge +1" or +2" instead of a zapper and maybe cut a point of armor and NCO only on select profiles to keep the cost down- the models do not look at all like they should have armor +3 and a bunch of the models are brandishing special CC weapons no one wants to pay for on a profile with no CC skills. I don't think these changes would make them super OP or even really competitive but would fit how I imagine élite zealot space witches would train and make interactions with things like yuan yuan's a little more fun/less tearful.
     
  20. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    So we'll get Fiddler. I'm sincerely chuffed to bits since that's a cool miniature and profiles!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    For me she's a solid 10.5 of 10 - would be a 11 if she had a Deactivator (CB doesn't seem to want Dep. Rep.s to be in danger). ... aaaand maybe jackbots with servant abilities but still the Synchronized restrictions would be cool too...
     
    #60 Tristan228, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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