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TAK Speculation

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Wombat85, May 20, 2018.

  1. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    What are people thoughts? what is missing from the sectorial? is it coming soon, or a long time? what would be the biggest hope you have? what would be the biggest disappointment?
     
  2. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    I think you can expect some form of "cheaper" skirmisher or Mechanized/Forward deployment unit to supplement the Scouts. Somewhere in the line of 19-20 points. I don't think CB would leave TAK in the lurch by only giving them Scouts as their sole source of upfield deployment.

    Also (and this is said as an Ariadna player who wants the faction to do well), I don't think Vet Kazaks should be linkable with Line Kazaks to get the 5-man fireteam bonuses. It'd be too much of a buff for simply too low a cost. To put it in perspective, linking Vet Kazaks with Line Kazaks would be like CB saying that Aquila Guard can now link with Fusiliers in NCA. Maybe a Haris option at most for the Vets.

    From what we've seen of mixed fireteams, CB generally only allows Arm 3 middle-costed Heavy Infantry like your Tankos, Domuru or Highlander Greys to link with LI. I think if TAK does get mixed fireteams for their Line Kazaks, it'll be some unreleased TAK HI that fits into the BS12 ARM3 mould, not the monster that is the Vet.

    Biggest hope - multiple Assault Packs. One pack for sensoring, another pack for killing <3. I'd like every game to be an Antipodean Offensive.
     
    #2 Tongfa, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
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  3. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
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    Current logic dictates GenCon 2-player box with Aleph
     
  4. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    I think the main issue is that anything added to TAK would also be added to vanilla, and the TAK units already out cover pretty much all the bases. The only notable absences are something in the S7/8 region(RM100 now CB kthxbai) and characters (Liaka)...
    The second faction is nearly certain to be the Vedic side of Aleph, but there's always a chance that it's something else, we only know for sure who it *isn't*.
     
  5. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
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    The ones who isn't
    PanO (icestorm)
    Nomads (icestorm)
    Yujing (red veil)
    Haqq (red veil)
    Combined (No sectoral this year)
    Tohaa (No sectoral this year)
    Ariadna (No MRRF this year)
    ...
    Aleph (Vedic will be coming this year (ie - not steel phalanx)

    You're kinda left with (vanilla Ariadna)Kazak vs Vedic... or something totally left field like 0-12.
     
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  6. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    @tdc we know it isn't O12 as well, iirc Bostria said that outright at rumble Q&A, but the curious thing to me is that the CA denials have always been pretty specific to the Shasvastii, so the door is still technically open, though I don't think anything will come through it...
     
  7. tdc

    tdc ALEPH Fragment
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    I think i missed the 0-12 then. And yes, I guess there is still a (very tiny) space for an unknown combined army force to be included.
     
  8. Kreslack

    Kreslack See you Space Cowboy...

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    I can't see them getting a cheap skirmisher option. It would kind of kill scouts. I can see them getting some manner of new unit that can form a link. Since right now we only got Line and Vet Kazaks and every other Major faction has at least 3. Though maybe there is a tiny chance Tank Hunters get a Scouts Guard type option to form links.

    I do agree thank Vet Kazaks shouldn't get a mixed link. (Unless there was some extra stipulation like only the Lt version can link with line kazaks) But I would love to see them get a full link. Or at least a haris.

    I'm most hoping the new Line Kazaks will look good. Something like the Antipode handler would be pretty awesome. I really don't want to see any of them with those ushankas. I'm also still hoping for a bridging medium unit between Line and Vet Kazaks.
     
  9. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    I'm not sure why people are against mixed links for Vet Kazaks. Crane Agents are available for mixed links with line troopers. Other mixed Arm 4+ HI (for either Core or Haris teams) include Hsien, Suryats, Sogarats, Mormaers, Daiyokai, and a bunch of Aleph characters). Of all these options, the Vet Kazak actually gives up a bit of punch by being in a link since SSL2 is redundant. In terms of a long range firepower, a 5-linked Vet Kazak APHMG is about as effective as a Spetsnaz HMG shooting out of camo for Surprise Shot - I've run the numbers on the dice calculator. I don't think savvy players are going to run the beefy APHMG version in a 5-link since TAK has that covered with Spetsnaz and Tankhunters. Instead, I see the mixed link as a reasonably good cheap link that can ARO first turn with a Sniper Rifle or Missile Launcher, then move up the field to push buttons with the Vet Kazak at the front to clear enemies.

    And, every piece of Vet Kazak fluff includes some passage about them leading other troops. I would be shocked if they didn't get a mixed link option TBH.


    For SK, an option in the 20-25 pt range would be appropriate though Ariadna is already bloated with SK so it would need to be something unique. Maybe an Antipode Hunter with an Adhesive Launcher / LSG or something.

    Other changes I'd expect are additional Spetsnaz and Tankhunter profiles. The existing profiles are fine, but those are base units that could use a bit more variety.
     
    #9 TriggerPuller9000, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  10. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping for the Kazaks to get a tank - an ARM 8 vehicle that moves 8-2 and is armed with an AP HMG with Full Auto and Lethality Lvl 1.
    It should count as a TAG so Ariadna can finally score full points in all ITS missions.

    As for the link teams, I agree that Vet Kazaks should not be able to mix. There should also be no Haris for them. Unless you put in something weird like a character that can do that. That character should have some expensive gear like grenades and molotok, maybe even Number 2, so the character is expensive and will not be chosen every game.

    Ah yes, I want a parachuting spetsnaz with a molotok and one with d-charges and Specialist Operative. Spetsnaz should be AVA 3 max.

    I believe that Antipodes will indeed be AVA 2 because the table in HS suggests this. Therefore I don't think further links and warbands are needed.

    No, I don't believe in even more skirmishers for Ariadna, Remember, they also become available for vanilla.
     
  11. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Subject as be talked about a lot on the wishlist post.

    I believe we will have TAK coming in the next starter with a generic/TAK starter

    I expect some tankhunter and line kazak resculpt and maybe a new unit. Likely something iconic like a new skirmisher and/or something related to the use of Antipode for military purpose like a scout/antipode Ghost sync unit (imagine devil dog team but with a scout instead of the dog and both scout and antipode being camoed).

    A secondary new unit could be a line trooper NCO. Something roughly like Vorinin but S2 and playable : a veteran line trooper : not yet good enough to become a veteran kazak but still good enough to lead a small team of trooper with the ability to count as line kazak for FT composition (like the kempeitai in JSA).

    Regarding link :
    - Line kazak core is obvious, I hope with some heavier unit able to join (Vet kazak, traktor mul ?)
    - as a harris/core : tankhunter in a non camo version (like the scots guard)
    - as a harris : vet kazak harris
    - as a harris : special harris of tractor mul with 2 mul and 1 dozer (the kazak artillery)
    - as a duo : vet kazak duo or vet kazak / dog warrior duo (because why not a Vet kazak directing a doggy)

    Regarding incresed AVA :
    - Tankhunter AVA goes to 5 if core of TH, if not stays at 3
    - Veteran Kazak AVA goes to 3
    - Spetsnaz AVA goes to 3
    - Scout AVA goes to 4 if the new unit is not a SK
    - antipode pack goes AVA 2
     
    #11 Arkhos94, May 22, 2018
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  12. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    I doubt there will be another Infiltrator. TAK is the expensive Ariadna sectorial, much more along the lines of a formal military than any other Ariadnan Sectorial, and I think that will be reflected in having smaller lists with pricier, more elite options. TAK is providing skilled expensive troops, and I expect this to be reflected in the average cost of units performing various roles.

    As for Vet Kazaks linking with line kazaks... This sounds like it's been confirmed, though I agree it's a bit worrisome. CB has expressed concern about linking certain troops that were originally designed to fill a key role in a non-Sectorial capacity, and I think Vet Kazaks qualify in that capacity. The difference between a Crane + CG link and a Vet Kazak + Line Kazak link is that the TAK version is providing superior firepower at long range for significantly cheaper than than the Crane version. Mimetism and Link Bonuses on a de facto 2-Wound unit is phenomenal, among the best combinations to be found in the game.

    I don't expect this will happen, but I'd like to see the Spetsnaz Sniper get revised. It's just not pulling weight compared to the HMG.

    I hope higher AVA will encourage use of the Spetsnaz Parachutist profiles too. Double HMGs seems like the common choice in Vanilla, which means the AD units (pretty dang cool, and a great shotgun miniature) don't often get used.
     
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  13. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I'd like to see both the HMG and Sniper Spetsnaz get revised, the HMG really sidelines the APHMG Tankhunter and could do with being taken down a peg (limited or normal camo rather than ambush maybe? Or remove MM2 from the HMG only) whilst the sniper needs a buff to be worth taking (AP Sniper and SWC reduction?).
     
  14. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Don't agree with you regarding the tankhunter : the spetsnaz and TH HMG both have a spot in my list (usually 2 Spetsnaz and 1 TH). TH is better at winning opposed roll but the TH AP HMG is better against heavier unit (ILO a little bit and a lot against TAG...) and more reliable than the autocanon in active.
     
  15. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The fact that you're routinely taking 2 Spetsnaz HMGs rather than a HMG+Sniper or HMG+Shotgun (and that you're not the only one by a long shot) is evidence that it needs to be toned down a bit IMHO.
     
  16. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    The advantage of HMG vs sniper is the same for every active trooper : except in very specific case burst beat the better range of sniper in active.

    Intruder sniper has a multi sniper and an x-visor yet I will always take the intruder HMG if I want an active turn piece.

    Sniper is better in ARO but the spetsnaz is not suited for it (break the advantage of ambush camo, no DA amo, only 1 W and low armor).

    This is why I don't take the spetsnaz sniper (that and knauf low low price) : not because the HMG is too good but because the sniper is missing something
     
  17. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    The tradeoff between Sniper and HMG is typically that the Sniper has better rangebands and superior ammo type, making for a harder-hitting ARO, while the HMG is purely an active Burst or Suppressive Fire beast.

    The Spetsnaz changes this pretty dramatically, because Marksmanship L2 ignoring cover and conferring Shock means that the Sniper Rifle's usual advantages are minimal/redundant. The Spetsnaz Sniper still has better rangebands, but this is less noticeable since the Spetsnaz is such a consistent shooter.

    Watch CB give the T2 to the Spetsnaz Sniper... Ugh.
     
    #17 barakiel, May 22, 2018
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  18. Keyrott

    Keyrott Nomad Handyman

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    That's the biggest middle finger to ALEPH and Combined heavies I think is possible with their 2W and NWI lol
     
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  19. Wulverdron

    Wulverdron Well-Known Member

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    I still think that there is space for a STALKER-expy unit in TAK. Some sort of midfield specialist, slightly worse than a Scout but with unique gear. Just to get in on that gasmask aesthetic.

    It could have BTS 3, and/or bioimmunity to represent their full coverage gear, and forward deployment to not step on the toes of Ariadna's many, many infiltrators. Give them specialist operative at the least, paramedic or engineer profiles preferably.

    ...Of course they would have to have that underpowered and throwaway weapon the submachine gun on every profile, because that is what CB uses to cheapen profiles these days. :face_with_rolling_eyes:

    Biggest hope is of course for a character dog-warrior #Laikanow
     
  20. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I thought about allowing the Tankhunters to be linked or camoed like the Scots Guards. It would be an elegant solution to the absence of other MIs. The inclusion of a heavy rocket launcher would be awesome, but is unlikely.

    To fix the Spetsnaz sniper problem, how about giving him MSV 1? There is no MSVs in the Kazak force so far. I haven't used the dice roller to check out the numbers though. I just thought it may make a useful and not too expensive addition.

    Btw. the TAG needs to be really well armoured or not hidden to make the Tankhunter HMG superior to the Spetsnaz HMG in that type of firefight. The possible uncamoed TH link could bring the HMG Tankhunter back on the battlefield.
     
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