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TAK outside of Limited Insertion

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by MATRAKA14, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Hi!
    I'm still experimenting with TAK and they are outstanding in limited insertion, but i'm having troubles finding a consistent strategy outside of it.

    For example I'm used to take 2 capable groups with USARF, MRRF and vanilla, usually with 16 regular orders. TAK seems to be placed at 15 regular orders but its possible to stretch it to 16.

    The thing is if you stretch it too thin the list is going to fall apart and if you use a 14 order list the two competent groups thing is not viable, at this point if you play a group with 10 orders and one with 4 the command token is going to reduce it to 8 / 4 for each group.

    So how do you deal with this? do you prefer to stretch the lists? or maybe you use a small group with aro pieces or defensive irmandinos? or maybe you have success going full pain train with a single 10 order group.

    For me my best performing lists have been the ones without haris. It seems to be a great idea to replace it with a ratnik with molotoks and then use the extra points to take some extra stuff like a frontovik sniper for the line core or some tank hunters


    [​IMG] Tartary Army Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] RATNIK 2 Molotoks, 2 Panzerfausts / Heavy Pistol, Trench-hammer, Knife. (2 | 54)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] DYNAMO Submachine Gun, D.E.P. / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ASSAULT PACK . (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] HANDLER Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (- | 10)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] x3 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (- | 15)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] TANKHUNTER Portable Autocannon, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #1 MATRAKA14, Oct 31, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    SirGrumpyPants and Barracuda like this.
  2. Barracuda

    Barracuda Cheeki breeki

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    I like the idea of having two capable combat groups. But for me, ratnik is a bit pricey outside LI.

    I would bet for almost full two combat groups. The idea of this list is to have a cheap defensive line kazak core and an obvious threat, the dog warrior. Double spetsnaz to do what they do, antipodes, 6 specialist of different kind for classifieds... there is room even for an ojotnik scout, who is easily replaced.

    [​IMG] Tartary mob──────────────────────────────────────────────────GRUPO 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2[​IMG] LINE KAZAK Teniente Fusil / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 9)[​IMG] LINE KAZAK Fusil / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 9)[​IMG] LINE KAZAK Lanzamisiles / Pistola, Cuchillo. (1.5 | 17)[​IMG] LINE KAZAK F. de Francotirador / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0.5 | 16)[​IMG] LINE KAZAK F. de Francotirador / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0.5 | 16)[​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CO: Camuflaje Emboscado) Ametralladora / Pistola, Arma CC, Cuchillo. (1.5 | 38)[​IMG] SCOUT (Observ. de Artillería) Ojotnik, Cargas-D, Minas Antipersona / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 30)[​IMG] DOG-WARRIOR 2 Chain Rifles, Granadas, Granadas de Humo / Arma CC AP. (0 | 27)[​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, Cargas-D, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC AP. (0 | 8)GRUPO 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1[​IMG] MANADA DE ASALTO undefined. (0 | 25) [​IMG] [​IMG] CONTROLADOR (Disp. de Control de Manadas) Fusil, Lanzagranadas Lig. de Humo / Pistola, Cuchillo. (- | 10) [​IMG] [​IMG] x3 ANTÍPODA Arma CC AP. (- | 15)[​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CO: Camuflaje Emboscado) Ametralladora / Pistola, Arma CC, Cuchillo. (1.5 | 38)[​IMG] DOZER (Disp. Control Traktor Mul) Fusil, Cargas-D / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 14)[​IMG] TRAKTOR MUL (Barreminas) Pulso Eléctrico. (0 | 5)[​IMG] TRAKTOR MUL (Barreminas) Pulso Eléctrico. (0 | 5)[​IMG] STRELOK (Observ. de Artillería) Escopeta de Abordaje / Pistola, Cuchillo. (0 | 20)[​IMG] 112 Escopeta Ligera / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 12)[​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, Cargas-D, Granadas de Humo / Pistola, Arma CC AP. (0 | 8)[​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Pulso Flash / Pistola Aturdidora, Cuchillo. (0 | 3) 5.5 CAP | 300 PuntosAbrir en Infinity Army[/IMG]
     
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  3. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    The ratnik seems expensive but packs a punch and is way cheaper than a haris. It works quite well outside of limited insertion, at least for me. My two other alternatives are changing the ratnik for a veteran kazak hmg and using those points to make the rest of the list stronger or squish another strelok inside like this:

    [​IMG] Tartary Army Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] DYNAMO Submachine Gun, D.E.P. / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    [​IMG] STRELOK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] STRELOK K-9 Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines + 1 K-9 Antipode / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] K-9 ANTIPODE Trench-hammer, AP CC Weapon. (8)
    [​IMG] TANKHUNTER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Or play like vanilla but with a line core, at the end of the day we have done it before TAK was official and without the core so it seems to be a competent option (a couple of camo hmgs, something with ap as plan b usually a missile launcher or autocannon, warbands, infiltrators and if posible a paratrooper)

    [​IMG] Tartary Army Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] TANKHUNTER AP HMG, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Mimetism, AD: Parachutist) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, Knife. (0 | 33)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] STRELOK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] TANKHUNTER Portable Autocannon, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] TRAKTOR MUL (Minesweeper) Electric Pulse. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] DOZER (Traktor Mul Control Device) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I miss the spetsnaz paratrooper in all my lists, is so hard to fit in but so needed to harass the enemy deployment zone if he uses good aro pieces.
     
    #3 MATRAKA14, Oct 31, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    SirGrumpyPants and Barracuda like this.
  4. Barracuda

    Barracuda Cheeki breeki

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    Well hello there, played a couple of days this list of yours, without the dynamo. Mission congelation.

    and definitely is a solid one!

    I was first, and my oponent took 2 orders from the first group because the veteran. So the spetsnaz had plenty of orders to go hunting. Streloks were great, despite I miss really hard my beloved chasseurs. SMG streloks are awesome for their points. Mines, small template and SMG.

    But I had a hard time fighting TO and DDO. I used to burn them, but now the fire is gone, only for veteran kazaks. How would you solve this?
     
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  5. mightymuffin

    mightymuffin Well-Known Member

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    My primary solution for TO and ODD is high-burst weapons, preferably linked, and just go for weight of fire.

    Ideally, I'd try impact templates, (e.g. Irmandinhos, Dog-warriors), spec fire or close-combat, but that tends to be rare in TAK; mainly because you need the right unit in the right place at the right time, and they don't tend to be numerous enough to cover all of your bases.
     
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  6. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    To be honest it seems to be the biggest weak point of TAK. It may be quite tricky to deal with any long range aro pieces with TO or DDO, mainly because it's not easy to approach them with TAK. Antipodes in any kind or form could be a solution but it's not always easy to cross the board to deal with a "premium" aro piece. Surprise attack with the spetsnaz in good range or the spetsnaz paratrooper with shotgun could work too.
    If the enemy has hmg or speedfire ranges it becomes quite easier to deal with them.
    Tank hunters have better odds to start in good range this its.

    Also if you are expecting a ddo to heavy set of matches you could try the frontovik sniper with visor. Just don't leave it in the open. use him to aim at restricted lines of fire were your rival needs to go eventually, and if a to pops up maneuver to shoot him if the odds are on your side.
     
  7. Skaldur

    Skaldur Active Member

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    I came up with this list I want to try

    [​IMG] Tartary Army Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] ASSAULT PACK . (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] HANDLER Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (- | 10)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] x3 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (- | 15)
    [​IMG] SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] TANKHUNTER Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] STRELOK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] 112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)

    GROUP 2
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] DOG-WARRIOR 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CCW. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] FRONTOVIK (Multiespectral Visor L1) AP Sniper / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Has a good number of orders. A shooting threat in each combat group (link team and spetznatz), two capable ARO pieces (tankhunter and Frontovik in link team) and a few close range threats (strelock SMG, dog warrior, assault pack). May be a bit weak on the specialist/ objective claiming front though.

    I'm still not completely happy with it. Writing lists for TAK is tough, unlike Nomads or Caledonia where I can easily write a list a think: "Yup, that list has everything I want it it."
     
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  8. SirGrumpyPants

    SirGrumpyPants A little grumpy

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    @Skaldur i like that list. I agree about writing TAK lists being hard, I always struggle. I chuck in what i want and go ooh, no more points for what I need.

    Sad panda :disappointed_relieved:
     
  9. Barracuda

    Barracuda Cheeki breeki

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    So true. Last game my trusted irmadinho chain rifled a TO infiltrator to death. But not always they are able to reach alive enemy deployment, to hunt a TO trooper. I also tried spetsnaz parachutist, and he was able to take out a mobile brigada throwing grenades over the roof at 9s. For light TO troopers entrenched in deployment zone, I think is aa good way to go.

    Frontovik msv1 is great. Thanks to him, the combined army total reaction bot now doesn't scare me anymore.
     
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