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TAK - Frontovik/Kasaks tourney lists - advice

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Tarash_bulba, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. Tarash_bulba

    Tarash_bulba New Member

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    Hello guys & gals,


    There will be a small tourney (max. 8 people) in may or june, and since I am starting to increase (and more importantly, to paint) my TAK sectorial, I would really like to use them for this tourney.

    Now, I do not have that much experience playing the game since my time is very limited, with maybe a maximum of 2-3 games every couple of months - means I forget rules because of lack of practice. With TAK I have played only 3 games up to now.

    Playing so rarely I also lack many of the skills that come with a lot of experience so please bear with me if I make some noob mistakes.



    Considering this and the fact that the tournament crowd is not extremely competitive here (except for the Aleph player, maybe), I would very much like to get some inputs from more experienced players on:

    A) if the lists are legal (from fireteam composition point of view, of course) - not so clear for me even after reading the rules ha ha

    B) any hints or opinions regarding the way I intend to play, maybe obvious weaknesses to some of the units more commonly used by players ( Haqq, CA, Aleph and Nomads armies in particular).

    I always liked the kazaks (with a little veteran flavour ;) ) and the new Frontoviks look really cool.


    So here are the lists

    List 1 - Frontoviks:

    Tartary Army Corps

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7

    STRELOK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    FRONTOVIK Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)

    FRONTOVIK Molotok / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1 | 30)

    FRONTOVIK (Multiespectral Visor L1) AP Sniper / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)

    FRONTOVIK Paramedic (MediKit) T2 Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)

    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)

    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7

    STRELOK (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)

    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)

    VETERAN KAZAK (X Visor) T2 Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 38)

    LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)

    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

    LINE KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

    COLONEL VORONIN (Sensor) Lieutenant T2 Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 21)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    My thinking is the following:

    A) The Frontoviks + 112 are a special fireteam and The Kazaks + Vet and Voronin are a core team with 2xwildcard troopers, so they should not contradict the rule that you can have maximum one fireteam of each type (haris, core, duo, special, etc). Is this correct?

    B) - Frontoviks fireteam should do the hardwork and cover almost all situations with the weapons available. The paramedic is there as a back-up specialist in case the 112 bites the dust.

    The second fire team is more for support and acting on the other flank if need be, with a sniper for long range and the veteran as the tank when needed. I like the voronin model a lot and he could help in close range if needed and also with his additional regular order.

    The spetsnaz is auto-include with surprise shot, shock HMG and marksman2.

    The streloks should fill in the chasseur style of spoiling enemy plans ( a model which I loved and always used in vanilla lists). One of them will be the minelayer (for mind games with the additional mine set-up during deployment and the specialist if needed) and the model with SMG is in because I love that model and I have it already painted (I know I am passing over the shotgun FO but I think I already have enough specialists).

    All in all there should be 2 decent fireteams with enough firepower to take out most threats, doing the ariadnan mind games with 3 camo models + 3 ambush markers + 1 mine, and also with enough specialists to complete objectives if need be.


    And here is list 2 - Kazaks:

    TAK 300 Kazaks

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8

    STRELOK Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)

    LINE KAZAK AP HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 23)

    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    LINE KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

    VETERAN KAZAK (X Visor) T2 Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 38)

    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7

    STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    TANKHUNTER Portable Autocannon, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)

    LINE KAZAK Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)

    LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)

    LINE KAZAK Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

    COLONEL VORONIN (Sensor) Lieutenant T2 Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 21)

    FRONTOVIK Engineer T2 Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    My thinking is the following:

    A) The line kazaks+frontovik+voronin (wildcard) are special fireteam and The Kazaks + Vet are a core team with 1xwildcard trooper so they should not contradict the rule that you can have maximum one fireteam of each type (haris, core, duo, special, etc). Is this correct?

    B) The Vet+kazaks fireteam is more like a actiony oriented team and the other kazak team is more of a firesupport and flanking team if necessary (Voronin should be safer there). Streloks have the same roles as the previous list but now with FO instead of minelayer because there is not enough SWC , and there is the addition of the tank hunter to the nasty fire support piece that is the spetsnaz because = Ariadnan sniping ;).


    So what do you think?

    Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

    Cheers
     
  2. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    You can only have 1 core fireteam, special or otherwise
     
  3. Tarash_bulba

    Tarash_bulba New Member

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    Hey, thanks for the feedback. I guess that's why no one else piped in with comments since the whole premise of the my list building is wrong. :)
     
  4. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    If you are a newer player, don't use Colonel Voronin. Everyone knows he is your lt, and he will catch a fatal case of the deads every game.
     
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  5. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    Sorry if my response seemed a bit cutting, I was short on time and assumed others would jump in and elaborate. I'll come back with some detailed feedback when I get a moment to think
     
  6. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Well-Known Member

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    Two comments from me, and I'll try to come back with more.
    First, If you really like the idea of two cores, you can try to set up one for your active turn, and then form the other when its your reactive. Its pretty expensive on Command Tokens, but it is one way to get the boni out of snipers, while still having an active turn Vet Kazak HMG. This can work especially well if you put the "active" core into supressive fire right before your turn is over. Alternatively, an aggressive haris may serve the same or a similar purpose.
    Secondly, I'm not a huge fan of 7/8 order groups. If you like the balance and you have a plan for each group, then more power to you. Alternatively, if you think that the missing orders might get your opponent to over-protect a flank, the shell game might work. But, I usually like to have a strong main group, with a second group of tools.
    So, pick the fireteam to form the base of your list, add the spetsnaz and streloks and a haris for flanking and then see what you have left. I really like antipodes and irmandhinos for quick, in-your-face nuisances.
     
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  7. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    Okay, here is some general advice
    List 1:
    SMG Streloks are good speedbumps if you put them in cover and supressive fire, but they do little else. You generally want troops that can perform multiple functions. Personally, I would only run an SMG strelok if it were accompanied by a K9. It offers a whole host of options that can make your life easier and you still get to use your lovely SMG strelok mini.
    The Frontovik link is a bit schizophrenic. I recommend picking a role for it and sticking to that. For instance: if you want a link that goes forward and takes objectives I would drop the sniper and consider replacing the HRL for an LRL engineer. If you want a long-range ARO and gunfighting team I would drop the Molotok. This is because of the range bands they will most often find themselves in. The molotok is a medium range weapon while the sniper and HRL are long to very long range. In both cases I would drop the paramedic. You have a doctor in the link so he is superfluous both as a healer and as a specialist.
    Second link is okay at a glance but it lacks a real offensive piece. T2 rifle vet is nice but if you could give him an HMG he would be extra nice. I would drop the sniper and leave the heavy weapons to the guys that can make them shine. HMG vet, Voronin, a paramedic and 2 regular line kazaks would make a pretty great high-speed-low-drag team that can fight its way to objectives and take them. A lot of people don't like moving Voronin up but I find his sensor and T2 shotty come in handy. I would just recomment having Vassily or a CoC Tankie tucked in a corner somewhere whenever you do run him.

    List 2:
    First link is a lovely defensive formation with a few tweaks. Once again switch the HMG over to the vet and make everyone else an FO. Laugh as your opponent eats 8 flash pulses and 2 HMG shots whenever they come into range.
    The second group looks good as a defensive DZ and ARO link except for the engineer. Engineers are useful for 2 things: repairing and taking objectives. Staying in your DZ he will be very unlikely to perform either function. I would replace him with either a basic line kazak or one of the Frontoviks' long-range profiles for more and better AROs and gunfighting. I would also consider dropping the paramedic. While he might get the occasional revive, I believe his points would be better used elsewhere.
     
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  8. Tarash_bulba

    Tarash_bulba New Member

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    Hello guys, thanks a lot for the good advice and taking the time to write it.
    @ BellyFlop. Maybe Voronin is good to use exactly because of this reason, but as a decoy not as the LT?

    @LankyOgreBP. That's a good idea. I never thought of the fact that I could use command tokens to have in effect 2 core fireteams. I never really found that much use up to now for command tokens but I guess we never really played that competitive here in the past.
    Regarding the 7/8 order groups...I was thinking mainly to have a balanced approach with enough main starz and cheerleaders in each group so as to be able to cover as much as possible of the play area or the case that the fireteam or the main pieces get taken out. There were a few times where I managed to blunt the opponents efforts quite easily after I took out a few of his important pieces from the 10 order group, and then the back-up models from the second 3-5 order group were to far back to make any impact (maybe not applicable for a skilled player).
    BTW, is this the main way to play for good players at tourneys? one 10 order group with an additional whatever orders are left?

    @ Brother Smoke: I like the K-9 of the strelok as well, it was just hard to justify the extra 8 points for the model and no access to specialist(Like FO). Maybe this comes from my previous experience with chasseurs where I always used them as FO's and usually being a nuisance to the enemy with the flamer (my intention was to use the smg strelok in kinda the same way). Bad thing about Strelok FO's is that they don't have any mines and the Minelayer is 0.5 SWC :(. I will take a new approach regarding the streloks based on your input.
    Now that you mention it, the frontovik fireteam does seem like it could use some optimization along your suggestions.
    The HMG + 4xFO's looks like a fun fireteam. And you just confirmed the doubts I had about the presence of the enginner in the second group. Thanks!
     
  9. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately that doesn't work for Voronin. Strategos only works if he is your Lt, so if he isn't then your lt order doesn't convert to a regular order.
     
  10. Tarash_bulba

    Tarash_bulba New Member

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    Yes, that's a bummer.
    But I was thinking that the opponent doesn't know that Voronin isn't the lt., and might take extra steps to remove him and force a loss of lt. situation. With Voronin in a tough core or haris, that might be enough bait to draw out and maybe even eliminate some of his most important units (like: TO assasins) ?

    Edit: In paranthesis it says that Voronin (sensor). Does this mean he has the sensor skill? Cause it doesn't appear in the special skills section.
     
  11. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    Your opponent will always know if Voronin is your lt. Either you have a lt order (Voronin is not your lt) or you don't (Voronin is your lt). And yes, the (sensor) means he gains it as a skill when choosing that loadout.
     
  12. Tarash_bulba

    Tarash_bulba New Member

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    Oh. Got it. Hmm, then I'll have to see where I can justify to take him based on your and the others suggestions. Thanks!
     
  13. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    I actually am a fan of Voronin since i tend to field LI lists, that 11th order can be clutch. And as long as you have a CoC model stashed somewhere you'll be fine.
     
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  14. Tarash_bulba

    Tarash_bulba New Member

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    Hello again. Based on your advice I tried to tailor a list that still had a few frontoviks and kazaks in it.


    TAK 300 Ftvk+Kazak fireteam and Vet + Ftvk Haris
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    STRELOK (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    FRONTOVIK (Multiespectral Visor L1) AP Sniper / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)
    LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    STRELOK K-9 Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines + 1 K-9 Antipode / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] K-9 ANTIPODE Trench-hammer, AP CC Weapon. (8)
    VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)
    FRONTOVIK (Fireteam: Haris) T2 Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    FRONTOVIK Paramedic (MediKit) T2 Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Since I am not yet experienced and/or comfortable in using 2 core fireteams with command tokens, i tried going for one core and one haris and also maximizing the amount of orders.
    Group 1 has the defensive fireteam. Besides the MSV1 frontovik which should be at least decent during active turn I also added a kazak sniper to get 4 ARO sniper shots in addition to the 2 flash pulses. The HMG Spetsnaz should be the real MVP of this group backed up by the fireteam. The minelaying strelok is going for objectives and hopefully messing enemy plans with mines.
    Group 2 Is more action oriented with the AP HMG Vet+Frontovik Haris going in for the kill. The paramedic is the cheapest specialist to go for objectives and maaaaaaybe do some healing if needed. This Haris I hope should be decent in suppresive fire as well. The strelok K-9 should also mess with enemy plans. What I do miss in this list is the fire templates via flamethrowers or rocket launchers (but couldn't afford the SWC or point cost :( ).
    I'm also not sure how this list could handle smoke warbands or the like.


    The second list is just some fun experimenting going full retard mode with defensive sniper fireteam for ARO board control in group 2.
    TAK 300 Defensive sniper kazak back-up
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    STRELOK K-9 Submachine Gun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines + 1 K-9 Antipode / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] K-9 ANTIPODE Trench-hammer, AP CC Weapon. (8)
    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    VETERAN KAZAK AP HMG / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 47)
    FRONTOVIK (Fireteam: Haris) T2 Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    COLONEL VORONIN (Sensor) T2 Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 21)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    LINE KAZAK Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 16)
    LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    The 112 from group 1 should hang around and maybe heal the snipers and help with some close range protection.
    Group 1 Haris and Spetsnaz are the aggressive MVP's with the streloks going for th eobjective and messing with enemy units.

    Overall I kinda feel the lists are vulnerable to smoke warbands and similar units and to TO& camo troops. Also I used the Autocannon Tank Hunter for so long as an effective ARO that I feel naked not taking him (but the SWC and point costs doesn't let me expermint fully with other stuff. Also my opponenets are too used to me taking him).

    Once again, thanks for all the good feedback sent my way. Hope y'all could still find the time to keep doing it. Cheers
     
  15. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    You can run two 5-man teams, it just requires, that you spend command tokens to form the one, you want active.
     
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  16. Tarash_bulba

    Tarash_bulba New Member

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    Hello,

    I wanted to give some feedback and impressions after the small tourney we had last weekend.

    While I still have a lot to learn about playing Infinity in general, and TAK in particular, and made couple of big mistakes it was fun overall and I did OK in achieving second place.

    The missions played were Deadly Dance, Frontline and Capture&Protect and in the end I chose to play all 3 games with the below list.

    TAK 300 Irmandinho + Core+Haris

    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────


    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3

    FRONTOVIK (Multiespectral Visor L1) AP Sniper / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1 | 31)

    LINE KAZAK Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 17)

    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    LINE KAZAK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)

    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)

    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)


    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1

    STRELOK (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)

    ASSAULT PACK . (0 | 25)

    [​IMG] HANDLER Rifle, Smoke Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (- | 10)

    [​IMG] x3 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (- | 15)

    SPETSNAZ (CH: Ambush Camouflage) HMG / Pistol, CCW, Knife. (1.5 | 38)

    VETERAN KAZAK (Forward Observer) AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 38)

    FRONTOVIK Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 23)

    FRONTOVIK (Fireteam: Haris) T2 Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)

    112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 12)

    LINE KAZAK Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)

    LINE KAZAK Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 9)


    6 SWC | 300 Points


    Open in Infinity Army

    The fireteam was Sniper Frontovik+ ML kazak +3xFO kazaks.
    The Haris was t2 Frontovik+ HRL Frontovik + AP rifle Vet.

    The first mission, capture and control, was against a new player with a Neoterra list. The Antipodes were the main MVP’s because they tore out a good chunk of the enemy army before succumbing to enemy fire (ORC troop with HMG, Some other high ARM well armed model, a nisse sniper, a doctor and a paramedic). After this he conceded because the troops he had left were mostly regular dudes (fusiliers) facing an uphill battle against my fireteams positioned in good ARO positions.

    The second mission was deadly dance against a spiral corps list, which I lost 5 to 4 due to a dumb mistake I did in the first round.

    I used smoke and then moved and coordinated chain rifle shots with 2xIrmandinhos against his, I think, Rasail lieutenant. Which was a bad tradeoff because I used WIP 13 against BS12+3 from combirifle and lost the F2F (and dieded from the wound ☹ ). The template from the other irmandinho hit him but he just caught it on the pokemon. I think I should have coordinated CC him with 2xCC20 attacks vs. his 15 especially since I rolled a monofilament CC weapon on one of the Irmandinhos. In his turn he proceeded to run the Rasail + flamethrower bot on my badly protected flank (another dumb mistake) and take out the haris from behind before succumbing. After that it was difficult to get to my assigned Zone while covering his zone which caused me to split up foces and in the end lose. It also didn’t help that he took out the Antipode Handler with the same rasail which made the antipodes promptly fail the wip roll and run next turn. Ah well, live and learn

    The third mission was Frontline against a Military orders list with Joan of Arc. I managed to set up a nice ARO firing zone between my 2 fireteams which saw the enemy lose the black friar sniper, a TO camo sniper and a sergeant with rocket launcher in his first turn. Afterwards I had to use 2 rounds of orders and sacrifice some models (irmandinhos, the strelok and the HRL frontovik) to break and kill one by one his Joan fireteam (High BS + link team + High PH is not fun to deal with).


    Overall my impression is in line with what I’ve read that other people are saying about TAK, glass cannon army, and it is tricky to survive a round against a good enemy player without good positioning. #Dawn is ours!
     
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