Sigh... hate beating a dead horse... So recently (today) I had a discussion on what happens if a unit that bears a symbiomate is hit with a Flash Pulse. Obviously, I pointed towards the following example from the N4 rules annex: "SymbioMate Game Example-2 In the next Game Round, during a heroic action, the Sakiel suffers two successful hits with AP Ammunition and one Critical hit with DA Ammunition, all of them in the same Order. As the Sakiel has a SymbioMate, he must use it, so he treats all three hits as Normal Ammunition due to the Immunity (Total) Special Skill, performing a total of four Saving Rolls with an ARM value of 9one Saving Roll for each hit and an additional Saving Roll due to the Critical. At the end of that Order, the player must remove the SymbioMate. If the Sakiel had suffered a successful Attack with a weapon loaded with PARA Ammunition, and with the Non-Lethal Trait, he will not make the Saving Roll, thanks to the Immunity (Total) Special Skill. However, his player must remove the SymbioMate from the game table at the end of that Order." The way I am reading this is, that the symbio mate has to be used when the trooper is hit with something like a flash pulse. However, the other person stated that this statement has to be read in the context of the whole example, meaning the Sakiel was hit by multiple lethal weapons AND a non-lethal one, thus being forced to use the symbio mate because of the lethal hits. Asking for confirmation here.
The SymbioMate must be used when suffering a successful Attackor being affected by any weapon or rule that requires a Saving Roll. This is the first bullet of the equipment. Flash Pulse require a BTS saving roll, so SymbioMate activates
The total immunity is activated once the hit is successful. If a flash pulse hits a unit with symbiomate, the unit ignores the flash pulse but the symbiomate is consumed.
The confusion probably comes from N3, where a Symbiotmate gave you blanket Total Immunity until consumed, which isn't the case in N4. You only get the immunity when you consume it now.
Yes, I know all of the arguments for and against being forced to use the symbiomate once hit with a flash pulse, as well as tge old N3 ruling. However, rumours travel fast on the internet and I'd like a clear statement about how it's supposed to work from CB, as there really is none so far. I also can't dismiss the fact that the example stated in my original post can be interpreted one way or another. Maybe @HellLois can resolve this once and for all? Pretty please? :)
It's crystal clear how it works, just read the rule of symbiomate. https://infinitythewiki.com/SymbioMate You only get the benefit of Symbiomate when they are triggered, they don't do anything until then. They give you Total immunity when used, which renders Flash Pulse useless.
Your trooper equipped with a SymbioMate gets hit by a flash pulse. The requirement from SymbioMate are met. SymbioMate trigger when something requires a Saving Roll. "The SymbioMate must be used when suffering a successful Attackor being affected by any weapon or rule that requires a Saving Roll." https://infinitythewiki.com/SymbioMate Stun ammunition requires a Saving Roll. "After a successful attack with Stun Ammunition, the target must make two Saving Rolls per impact suffered." https://infinitythewiki.com/Stun_Ammunition The trooper gains Total Immunity "A SymbioMate provides its user with ARM and BTS values of 9 replacing the ARM and BTS values of the user's Unit Profile and it also provides the Immunity (Total) Special Skill." https://infinitythewiki.com/Immunity Being Total Immune makes you ignore the effect of Flash Pulse as it has the Non-Lethal trait "The Trooper is completely immune to Weapons or Ammunitions with the Non-Lethal Trait, not suffering their effects, and not requiring a Saving Roll or Guts Roll. (See FAQs & Errata. For Plasma, Sepsitor.)" https://infinitythewiki.com/Immunity
Noticed I had this marked as unanswered owing to not having updated the questions lists after 1.1.1. Added it to the answered thread now that we've got solid logic on how comms attacks would work thanks to the FAQ answer "Spotlight doesn't trigger the SymbioMate, because it doesn't cause a Saving Roll."
Hellois almost never posts rules answers (and when he does, they're not always clear. He has many skills, but answering rules questions isn't one of them, at least not in English). We probably can't expect any official answers to any questions until whatever happened with @ijw has been sorted out (at this point, it seems like that means replacing @ijw ). Who knows when that will be - CB isn't talking. In the meantime, we might get a quarterly FAQ soon, but without @ijw I kind of think it's unlikely. In any case, this particular question is unlikely to ever get an official answer, in a FAQ or otherwise, simply because the existing FAQ already makes the answer clear as @Mahtamori points out above.
What do you need more that this rule step by step breakdown? There are rules, there is a relevant FAQ, there is the explanation. Seriously?
Almost certainly there's a Tohaa player in his community who won't accept that answer unless it's spelled out explicitly. And considering how finnicky rulings can be in Infinity, I get it, even if it's obnoxious.
That may be, but the specific issue in the original post was solved by @Arkaon1125 and to be honest it's as simple as they wrote, really. The rules even bold the word "must". I'd say the onus is on the player who doesn't think a Flash Pulse is an attack that requires a save to prove that it is either not an attack or doesn't require a save. (Though that player may need to also be reminded that examples are not rules and are above all else not possible to write exhaustively)
In Infinity? Since when? We've been told for god knows how long by CB Staff that examples should be understood as rules and the limitations in the examples are to be applied.
Ever since IJW told us that if an example doesn't follow the written rule we should follow the written rule. In this case, though, the example argument from the unidentified player is only meant to sow confusion - it's a pure strawman.
Le sigh, I could've expected they would contradict themselves. Same with the Wiki vs rulebook / FAQ priority.
Got a link? (Secondary challenge is to find examples that actually contradict the rules, which is much harder in N4. I believe there might be only one, which is where IJW told us that the rules apply and the example is erroneous)
I'll be honest I don't remember exactly and I don't feel like going through the forum, but that was when I got the "IJW is right when he contradicts the rules and he's right when he contradicts the examples" pushback and it was just hilarious.
