http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Surprise_Shot SURPRISE SHOT L1 SHORT SKILL BS Attack, Optional. REQUIREMENTS In addition to Surprise Shot, the user must be able to use one of the Special Skills CH: Camouflage, CH: Limited Camouflage, CH: TO Camouflage, Impersonation, any Special Skill, piece of Equipment or state that allows its user to play in a Marker state, or any other that explicitly allows its user to make Surprise Shots. The user of this Special Skill must be in a Marker state (Camouflaged, TO, Impersonation-1...) or in the Hidden Deployment state at the time when he receives an Order and activates. EFFECTS In a Face to Face Roll between the user's BS Attack or Hacking Attack and an enemy, the enemy suffers a -3 MOD to the relevant Attribute. This -3 MOD is added to other MODs caused by Camouflage and Hiding, Range, Cover,etc. The user of this Special Skill cannot declare Surprise Shot again until he regains the Marker state. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Sensor:_Triangulated_Fire SENSOR: TRIANGULATED FIRE ENTIRE ORDER BS Attack, Optional. REQUIREMENTS The user must have the Sensor Special Skill. The user must also have LoF to the target. EFFECTS Allows the user to declare a BS Attack with one of his BS Weapons against a target within LoF by making a BS-3 Roll, ignoring all other applicable MODs (Range, Cover, Special Skills such as Camouflage, TO, ODD...). Because Surprise Shot is a short skill (which declaration goes instead of the standard shot declaration) and Triangulated Fire is a Long skill (that also goes instead of same shot declaration) i was expecting for them not to work together, but i was told im wrong about it, which i hope is true. Can i please get a confirmation that it works this way in this particular interaction? thanks
Look at it from the other direction. Triangulated fire lets you make a BS Attack, which Surprise Shot does have as a trait.
Just treat Surprise Shot and Surprise Attack as a MOD on any type of Hacking Skill / BS Attack / CC Attack. It's the most coherent way to interpret it.
This is lovely combo <3 Thanks to camo you can even easily get LoF of that guy you want to shoot with Triangulated fire!
Well, not completely clear about the "why", but clear enough that that´s the way it will be used Thanks everyone
But... why? Sensor: Triangulated Fire is ENTIRE ORDER Surprise Shot is SHORT SKILL how whe can combo them?
Because the one skill (the short skill) says to make another skill use without specifying that it has to be a ‘short skill’ BS Attack. And doing that—using a short skill to perform what would on its own be an entire order skill—doesn’t change the short skill into an entire order skill. This is all from the ‘If it says BS Attack, anything with the BS Attack tag works’ FAQ: “ Are Skills with the BS Attack label considered to be BS Attacks or other Skills when declaring a Coordinated Order? For example, could a Coordinated Order be made where one of the members declares Surprise Shot, another Forward Observer and a third troop shoot with a rifle? They are considered to be BS Attacks, so can be combined in a Coordinated Order.” If it’s an oversight, they’ve not chosen to correct it for (I think) at least a year. Edit: And I don’t know if it has ever been officially explained how you coordinate model X performing an entire order skill while model Y does a short skill + Move; for coordinated hacking or otherwise.
@solkan I think it doesn't change the Entire Order skill into a Short Skill either, so you'd have to declare that Surprise Attack as an Entire Order skill (or flip order to longest first)
The order you declare would be "Sensor: Traingulated Fire", as part of that order you have to declare a BS Attack ("Allows the user to declare a BS Attack with one of his BS Weapons against a target within LoF...") and the FAQ tells us that any short skill with the label (not just the name) BS Attack is a BS Attack (this may be unintended, but it previously applied to Spec Fire + Surprise Shot it's not without prescedent), so you choose "Surprise Shot" as it has the BS Attack label. When it comes to requirements the only thing you need for Surprise Shot is to be in marker state when activated. It's not the cleanest of nestings, but it seems logical within the rule framework. Now, it'd be nice if Surprise Shot wasn't its own skill and instead was a Trait (for want of a better word) that was applied to short skills/entire orders when its requirements were met, but maybe that's an N4 wish.
Yes it is. For the same reason. The Entire Order allows you to make a BS Attack, which Surprise Shot counts as due to the tag.
Hunzakuts, Foxtrots, Uxia, Intruders, Prowlers and Igao could all do it with damaging weapons, others like Dart, Shinobu etc. could use smoke, E/M, nimbus grenades etc. Burst 1 on ~8s to 9s vs. a dodge on a -6 isn't great, but sometimes worth it, especially if you're catching several models under the template.
I feel that some people are confused because you do the skill "surprise shot" and it triggers the "triangulated fire"/"speculative fire" short skill. This is incorrect. You declare the entire skill one and it triggers the short skill. This was at it takes an entire order but you get surprise as part of it.
Absolutely agree in a way to explain to others when they wish to know if they can, but not the "why" it works. I attempted to just help with explaining the why by showing which action triggers which action that makes sense.
Personally I don't think there is a coherent 'why' other than 'because CB'. For instance, a Surprise Shot Redrum has the BS Attack trait as far as I can tell.
