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Suppressive fire and stunned

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by borings, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    So, the suppressive fire state says it is ended by being blinded, but blinded was changed to stunned. is it safe to assume that stunned ends suppressive fire? i assume it is something that was missed in the transition to human sphere
     
  2. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    Since stunned means you can no longer declare attacks and ARO declared after being stunned will cancel suppression fire.

    So the question is moot except in the scenario when a model is stunned late in the turn and doesn’t declare another ARO.

    But an answer to this corner case is still handy.
     
  3. borings

    borings Well-Known Member

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    It would also come up if the trooper suppressing just tanked hits for the round, and made all their guts checks.

    But yeah, mostly asking for clarification in corner cases. It was pretty clear that flash pulse was intended to be useful to stop suppressing, but with them not changing the wording im not so sure

     
  4. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Basically do a find in the rules for "blind" and replace with "stun" and you shouldn't have any trouble. It's a direct replacement. So, yes, I'd go with Blinded or Stunned = cancellation of Suppression Fire.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I do remember Stunned being a thing before that replacement, so I don't think this is correct.

    Blind got turned into Stunned, but Stunned remains Stunned.

    Stunned is not kind to troopers without Courage, so the Suppression breaking is not unlikely to sort itself out.
     
  6. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    You are remembering incorrectly. Stunned does not exist as a State in the N3 book, but Blinded does, and vice versa in HS N3 book.
     
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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Did you check HSN2?
     
  8. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    I did not, nor can I. I don't have access to any of my old materials any more. Why would that be relevant? I retract my earlier statement about your memory, if that is the case, however I'm not sure why it matters.
     
  9. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Maybe there was something in the 2nd to 3rd edition bridge document? Now I'm not trusting my own memory... I need to go to bed.
     
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I refer you to http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Flash_Special_Ammunition where it is stated that this has changed from HSN2 from "blinded" (gone) to Stunned (the status now applied to all what was blinded in HSN2).

    In short:

    Supressive fire is an attack short order. Stunned prevents entering supressive fire. Aside from that, if a troop in Supressive Fire state is Stunned, that troop won't lose Supressive Fire state, but cannot ARO with attack orders... so yeah, it remains in Sup Fire, but cannot fire, and the first enemy shooting at that troop with anything will force a "dodge or eat lead". Dodge with PH-3, of course.
     
  11. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Some further digging would indicate from inference that Stun was a campaign paradiso addition for 2nd edition, and due to the order of publishing was in limbo for a time at the start of 3rd, (where 2nd ed stun co-existed with 3rd ed blind) until it was added back by the HS N3 book release (instead of an expected campaign paradiso 3rd release), where 3rd ed stun replaced 2nd ed stun and 3rd ed blind. Apologies @Mahtamori .

    I still think Stunned would cancel SF directly, however as @xagroth points out even if it doesn't, the opposing player would shortly be able to force the issue if desired.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify now that I'm not on a phone and can access the Human Sphere Paradiso PDF I've got saved on my work computer; Stun and Flash ammo is a product of N2 expansion rules which were barely updated when N3 was released. During N3, Flash Ammo was updated, Blind State implemented, but Stun Special Ammunition remained N2. Stun didn't use to cause any of N2's quasi-states, but instead was a type of ammo that only worked on non-STR models and that could not cause a model to pass from Unconscious to Dead.

    From discussions on Immunity: Total, I would say that skills and references are not by nature transformative in Infinity as suggested. Thus, references to Blind should be considered obsolete instead of transform to their new form, just like how Immunity: Total in spite of calling Stun out specifically for ARM saves can not be considered transformative to protect the user from the ammunition's BTS rolls, nor transformative to protect the user from Flash ammunition's Guts Roll effect.
    Much as I'd love it for Sun Tze and Karakuri to be immune to Flash and Stun ammo. And T2, but in spite of being specifically called out, the newer version of T2 makes it no longer qualify.
     
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