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Supporting the Guijia

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Jan 29, 2020.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Like it or not, it's what we have the moment. If you want to use it for Show of Force or just for the hell of it you are probably going to want to support it with other troops. Here's some troops I think can be helpful. But I'd like some feed back and suggestions.

    Guijia support troops.

    Madtraps
    in general are good for defending the Guijia and good for against other TAGs. But below are the troops with them I think help the most.

    Zhanying with Madtraps.
    He's got Sensor that can help discover anything that can hurt the tag, and if he follows him , he has a pretty good weapon with Breaker but the Madtraps are also great for protecting the TAG from anything that tries to take it out in CC. There's also his Nimbus grenades he can throw on him.

    Kanren with Madtraps. He can start further up the path and set the madtraps to “guard” the TAG.

    Guilang AHD. A good troop in general but he can help defend the TAG against other hackers and can attack enemy hackers.

    Shaolin. Of course you want the 5pt smoke chucker. But since Guijia is so tall you need taller smoke to cover him. The Shaolin also helps against anything that my come too close.

    Husong. Of course it’s good for defense but if you use a coordinate order with this and the Guijia, it’ makes for some really hard decisions of what to shoot.

    A Monstrucker is a must I think since CB in their wisdom, seem to think we don’t need many in Yu Jing. But this guy can climb around, stay out of sight and throw drop bears in the path. Not to mention fixing the Guijia.

    The Liberto is fantastic anyway but the minelayer in particular can help by being a nuisance and laying mines in the path of the Guijia.

    This is what i'm thinking of bringing to Show of Force on the weekend.

    Yu Jing
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    GŪIJIĂ MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / DA CCW. (2 | 88)
    [​IMG] GŪIJIĂ PILOT Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. ()
    ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, MadTraps / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28)
    HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    GŬILÁNG Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MECH-ENGINEER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  2. MarkmassacrE

    MarkmassacrE Member

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    Thanks for posting this man. I really need help keeping my Guijia alive. I love the model so I wanna run it but I’m having a hard time making it work. The few times I’ve tried it gets smashed in CC pretty easily. And With all the shas out there speculos are a real PITA to deal with. I think the monks are my best bet for defending against them and other CC threats. Mines are ok but they go off at the end of the order after the damage has already been done. Monstrucker looks like an interesting option too. Ninja KHD maybe?
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The monks are great because 5pts., and the impetuous orders help to keep up with the TAG.

    Something I probably should have mentioned are Kuang Shi. While they don’t have their own smoke, they are still good for keeping away CC troops. Another thing too is that they can actually Coordinate Order with the Guijia. The monks can’t because they are Irregular. Not really a problem but you need to buy the Celestial Guard with control device too.
     
    #3 Space Ranger, Jan 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Which gives you a Smoke LGL for 13|0.5
     
  5. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Feeling a lot of problems here. First off, you need to get some regular orders in pool 2. Sure, those guys might be primarily independent operators, but if the situation presents itself, you'll want to be able to provide any of those potent profiles with orders to get the job done. A 5 point Shaolin in the right place at the right time with the right amount of orders can get some serious legwork done.

    Additionally, taking the Guijia is already a pretty heavy penalty in itself. If you're going to get on that train, I'm going to argue that you definitely need Kuang Shi to balance out that order count. Kuang Shi also give the massively important benefit of helping to reinforce your own defense.

    In a similar vein, I'd probably run something like this:


    Another TAG list
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]4
    GŪIJIĂ MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / DA CCW. (2 | 88)
    [​IMG] GŪIJIĂ PILOT Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. ()
    CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    LIBERTO (Minelayer) Light Shotgun, Chain-colt, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    TIGER SOLDIER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    XI ZHUANG Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, MadTraps / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    GŬILÁNG (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)
    GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
    MONSTRUCKER Submachine Gun, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    You could consider switching one of the Guilangs with Group 1's Pangguling in order to give it access to a bigger order pool once the Guijia goes down.

    Tiger in group 2 gives you a strong secondary piece to support the Guijia, and once again, something you can use once the Guijia gets taken down.
     
  6. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    How has the Ninja KHD not come up yet? If you have any level of forethought and a reasonable set of bots with repeater, you can keep the big guy pretty well protected that way.

    I think there could be some merit in running the Guijia in IA in a duo with Krit. Being able to cover it with e/maulers and a chain colt on top of the flamethrower is pretty solid.
     
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  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Personally I hate Kuang Shi. I don't like the story or the figures. But yes they are still good for some. If they work for you, do it.

    Good points on the Ninja KHD. If you are playing a mission that needs a TAG in particular, you know there's going to be some hackers. The Ninja KHD is perfect for taking them out.
     
  8. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

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    I've been lurking and not logging in for ages now but this thread has given me the spur to contribute.

    Nice thread and overall good advice. I've a couple more models I think provide good support for the Guijia.

    Lu Duan: It's a very solid remote anyway and holo-projector allows you to pretend to be something innocuous before revealing a heavy flame thrower. However its greatest asset in my view when facing the likes of speculo killers and other CC monsters that can cut our precious TAG into sashimi with a single order is by deploying around it to physically block any access to the TAG for CC. Three 55mm bases and a flat wall will allow you to completely surround the TAG. You can layer this defence even further if you want but this tactic is nice because it forces the opponent to deal with the remote and echoes first before it can commit against the TAG.

    Sun Tze: Expensive as he is, our iconic character brings an invaluable support tool for our TAG in Strategos lvl 3. Unless the enemy also has high level Strategos they won't get a hold back and you get 2. This means you get to see where the enemy is going with all their threatening pieces (assuming they are deploying first and going first) and deploy your own accordingly. If you are deploying first then you get to place the TAG and they have no reserve to counter-deploy against it. The extra order that the Guijia can use is also very welcome and Sun is can be a serious annoyance in ARO because of his flash pulse. With the TAG it's a huge chunk of your list but the deployment advantages it can leverage have been worth it for me in the past.
     
  9. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I love that advice on the Lu Duan and I might try that soon! In addition to that you have a repeater for a hacker to protect as well.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    while I think the best hacking defence Yu Jing has is a 26pts Ninja putting a DA CCW through enemy hackers, also remember that a Lu Duan can Cautious Move (and by that I mean activating Holo2 and daisy-chaining past difficult AROs) and if this manoeuvre is not enough, try to NOT make the echo closest to safety the real one for increased odds of the enemy shooting the wrong echo.
    You can also do this to get a Repeater into the ZoC of dangerous hackable targets such as Cyberghosts or other Remotes without the risk of losing the Lu Duan's Repeater. Just... remember that the starting point has to be outside enemy ZoC and that using tthe Repeater cancels Holoecho state.
     
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  11. Law Dawg

    Law Dawg Member

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    OK, a bit off-topic newbie question: How exactly does "daisy-chaining past difficult AROs" work? Can you give an example situation?
    Also, if I use Lu Duan's holo1 to pretend it's a different REM, wouldn't holo2 give it away as a Lu Duan, since it's the only REM in the army with that silhouette and holo2?
    As for Guijia, is it worth running the Guijia + Krit duo in vanilla? Having the pre-requisite of Panggulin EVO for TeamPro and a command token to set up the duo seems like a lot of pieces to just make it happen.
     
  12. Janzerker

    Janzerker Invincible Angry

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    You have a full thread where we discussed that option here
    Let's say it's doable.
     
  13. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Having made that thread, I have to say that Krit is absolutely not worth running in such a fashion.

    Just take a monstrucker. You'll have enough points left over that you can toss in a myriad of better options for supporting your Guijia's advance. A monstrucker gets to toss a drop bear to reinforce your defensive line every turn he's not actively needed, and with the remaining points you can fit in a Guilang, Zhencha, or Tiger to reinforce your midline defenses or destabilize the backfield, or act as a secondary offensive piece.
     
    #13 Weathercock, Feb 1, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Holo1? My suggestion didn't mention Holo1. If you're trying to pretend it's a Rui Shi you're not going to use it actively ...

    When you activate Holo2 your echoes gets put down at the end of the order. As long as no one has LOF to your Duan your brand new echoes won't cause ARO. So you can put them down right in front of the enemy and since the Duan has a large base you can reposition a good 80mm (slightly over 3") this way which for narrow firelanes can allow you to get past snipers relatively risk free. Especially useful if you have something to shoot at within 6" of the new postion.
     
  15. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic Well-Known Member

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    I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Holoecho (State) says:

    This has mystified me for a little while now, because the rule also says, under Effects, that the controlling player notes in secret which is the real one. But nowhere in the rules does it say (and I can't find it in an example either) that the real one gets a free move equal to its base size in order to swap positions with one of the echoes. At the same time, the rule explicitly states that the two echoes are placed in base contact with the bearer.

    My interpretation of this was that any time after Deployment, it would be obvious which trooper is the bearer and which are the echoes, since "...place the other two Holoechoes in base to base contact with the Holoprojector L2 bearer..." (without the directive to reassign which model is the bearer at the same time) means that the opposing player can just note which model/marker didn't change position.

    If the rule is intended to be read as "...place the other two Holoechoes in base to base contact with the Holoprojector L2 bearer, and then freely select any of the three as the real trooper regardless of position." then that would at least preserve secrecy, and allow a free move the width of one model's base.

    But it sounds like you're using a reading like "...place the other two Holoechoes such that each is in base contact with at least one other Holoecho, or the Holoprojector L2 bearer, then freely select any of the three as the real trooper regardless of position." So you place two Holoechoes, one in base contact with the bearer and spanning the narrow alley, another in base contact with the first Holoecho but across the narrow alley and beyond LoF, and then note that the third Holoecho placed is the real one.

    Is that right? (Meaning, do I understand you correctly, and also, is that really how this rule works?)
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think we might both have been reading it slightly wrong. I was reading it as "place each echo in contact with another" much like how Antipode's coherency works, except in this case touching rather than being ZoC.

    When you activate it, you place both echoes in contact with the real model as the method of entering the state. Then you note which one is the real model as the effect of the state. Means less distance for shenanigans.
     
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  17. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like the interpretation that makes the most sense to me. It'd sure be real nice if the rules explicitly said "replace the model with a Holoecho, place two more Holoechoes in base contact with the first, and then assign any one of the three as the real trooper."

    Sometimes it seems like CB's rules people — who I believe are in fact very good at most of the design aspects — confuse "resolved simultaneously" with "don't worry about the order of operations." *rubs temples, reaches for bourbon*
     
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  18. wes-o-matic

    wes-o-matic Well-Known Member

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    There's this idea in the education design community about "microlearning" as a format for training. There are a few things on YouTube that sort of do this for Infinity, but they're not consistent and they're spread all over the place in various content producers' channels. Some are about the basic rules, but a lot cover tactics, which is great, but honestly sometimes I just want to be able to pull up a one-minute animation that shows the correct way to play through one of Infinity's more counterintuitive or creatively worded skills.

    You know what would be great? A unified series of micro-tutorials, either from CB or the community, on what some of these rules look like in practice. I work as a training designer, and it's not hard to create little animated videos with narration that walk you through a step-by-step process when it's easier to show than to describe with text.

    That project probably ought to follow N4, though. If we're very lucky maybe the new rules will be clear enough to make that kind of thing unnecessary...
     
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  19. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Well I wasn’t able to get my Guijia (old one being re-painted) back together in time. So I ended up playing Dahshat with Maggy in Show of force. But something from that game that came into play is something that can be done with YJ too. I had a Hunzakut with Deployable Repeater in the middle of the board inside a storage container. I then used Miranda to hack anything coming close the Antenna. This same thing can be done with the Guilang FO with Repeater. Now your KHD or whatever can defend your TAG and attack the opponents.

    Oh and my LIberto took down a Gecko with a DEP! The first time I’ve actually hit with one let alone killed something. lol
     
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  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Have another shot for me.

    This is also why I did make 3x holoecho markers.