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Suggestions for ITS

Discussion in 'ITS' started by Hachiman Taro, May 12, 2019.

  1. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Hi there,

    I really like the little tweaks @HellLois makes to ITS each season. Keeps it interesting, tweaks some rules that might need it, and adds some story elements. It's really a great thing for him to do, which I think is generally very much appreciated.

    So I thought I might make some suggestions - most being tweaks to this seasons special rules (if they are to be kept).

    1. Xenotech
    This is one of the few ITS tweaks a lot of people don't like (even with the newly increased Xenotech WIP thanks for that though hellois!).

    Suggestion: Restrict the Xenotech to just a few missions if you are going to keep it, and always give players a way to affect the odds, like in the missions where having a hacker on the table makes placing the Multiscanner WIP+3. Maybe if the Xenotech is synced to that Bonus specialist or the data tracker, you get the bonus to make it a bit more of a choice. Being able to make choices that affect the odds of success is a big part of what makes the game interesting!

    2. Bonus Specialist (with double WIP roll)
    I've really enjoyed having the Bonus specialist in some missions get +3 WIP AND two WIP rolls to activate objectives. Choosing the right tool to do the job and getting rewarded for it feels really good.

    Suggestion: I would suggest to keep this rule and make most missions where a specialist has to activate something with a WIP roll to have a Bonus specialist that works like this. However I think it would be better if you had to activate the objective with the Bonus specialist as a Long Skill to get two WIP rolls. That adds a slightly more meaningful choice again.

    3. Landing Assistance
    This has been fun for a season but I think it's a little strong to be the rule for every season.

    Suggestion: Make the +3 PH EVO bonus for AD Combat jump stack with the +3PH from Supportware Controlled Jump instead.

    4. Terrain Bonuses
    CB often seems to want to integrate terrain rules into tables, however I think this is often resisted by players because there are only negative results for entering terrain, so it feels bad.

    Suggestion: Modify the current Difficult Terrain rule to only be:
    • Troopers with the appropriate terrain skill are always considered to be in cover when in contact with that type of Difficult Terrain
    So, a bonus for the right troop instead of a penalty for the wrong one. Troops without the right skill will still often move slower, because they need to find cover more.

    Modify the current Very Difficult Terrain rule to only be:
    • Troopers with the appropriate terrain skill are always considered to be in cover when in contact with that type of Very Difficult Terrain
    • In Very Difficult Terrain, troopers cannot declare two Short Movement Skills in the same order.
    Still more of a bonus, but with more downside. I think that would have people using terrain on their tables more often.

    Hope you found these suggestions interesting, and thank Hellois again for the effort he puts into ITS.
     
    Lesh', ChoTimberwolf, ZlaKhon and 2 others like this.
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    One thing I'd like to mention with respect to the Xenotech/Datatracker/Pointman stuff that's popping up - pick a theme for an ITS season and stick with it. We don't need to have multiple versions of this floating around in all the scenarios. Choose a gimmick for the season and stick with it - whatever it is.

    Unfortunately, that would require the ITS document to be reviewed each season instead of just copy-pasted.
     
  3. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Do you have to sabotage all of your feedback with negative garbage?

    I agree that limiting the special rules for each season. Bring back popular ones on future seasons or for a special pack. But the general missions should have 1-2 extra rules max
     
    A Mão Esquerda, tox and inane.imp like this.
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Dude the English version of Decapitation had very different scoring from the Spanish-language version. The ITS document is extremely haphazardly curated, and it's a flat-out fact that copy-paste errors persist season to season after being fixed in previous seasons.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Sure. But we all know that. Throwing it in people's faces isn't the way to get traction.

    +1 to your actual point though. Also to @Hach's
     
  6. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    +1 with the idea to have one theme for each season.

    1. Xenotech : I like it when you have to drag the xenotech around to cap zone or objectives. Not so much when it's just 2 orders tax to plant a marker. Or make the Xeno thing destructible by the other team, AND it has to be here for at least two turns (can't just drop it on the last turn)

    2 Specialist bonus : Love it. Keep it like this. Each mission having a dedicated specialist that almost auto pass the test is great for list variety. I may even take a defensive hacker with ariadna.

    3. Landing assistance : Love it. Don't change a thing. Imo, this is how the AD rule should be to start with.
    The template thing is just too complicated. Not to mention it's very table dependant.

    4. Terrain ... no opinion.

    Forward deploiement for medium infantry ... I don't know. Good to give MI a buff but not sure if it does change the game. It just make the good stuff like interventors even better.


    AND add the fatality rule to the tag profiles on Army if this rule is here to stay (and it probably is).
     
    ChoTimberwolf and Nenyx like this.
  7. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Agree with you.

    About MI, the problem about this buff is as you said. The MI we were already using because they were good will be better. The poor ones (mostly the costy ARM3 1 wound MI without anything special), well, will stay poor. It won't solve the "costy ARM + many ways to bypass it" problem.

    About fatality, seriously, TAGs should be the one with Fat L2, not Taric & shasvaasti. More fitting on big murder machines. Plus the problem with the current linked high burst Fat2 troops would be mitigated by the TAGs own weaknesses.
     
    LaughinGod, Metal730 and Hecaton like this.
  8. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    My original thought for a suggestion about MI was to replace Bravery (FD1) with:

    Mutual Life Support:
    Medium Infantry troopers gain Shock Immunity as a Three Member Fireteam Bonus. Medium Infantry that already have Shock Immunty gain Bioimmunity instead, while Medium Infantry that are already Bioimmune gain Total Immunity (Vulnerabilities: ?).

    I think this would make MI more of an even step between LI and HI in terms of durability. And limiting it as a Link bonus avoids the worst of MI that are already good getting another bonus.

    However, the new Total Immunity might make Bolts quite strong when they already just got a buff, unless perhaps there were a number of Vulnerabilities added.

    Also, adding a Strategic Deployment profile to linakble MI might make an improved / more targeted version of Bravery in the main rules, and I wouldn't be surprised at that being added over time.
     
    WiT? and BLOODGOD like this.
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    CB I think is working under the idea that TAGs are sweet models and don't need the help of good rules to sell well.
     
    chromedog and melkiach like this.
  10. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Do feel like some things might benefit from some standardisation (eg like if datatrackers get an extra irregular order in some missions, maybe it should be more standard across missions, same with having a specialist bonus). Just makes things easier to remember too.

    Positive attitude towards something great CB do for us free might help too :)
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That would also be good.

    Part of why I buy their minis is their ruleset and tournament system. We're all paying for it.
     
  12. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    I would like the TAG Fatality L1 buff to become permanent. I was secretly hoping for it to be part of the last trio of books, but it was not.

    It’s a great rule that gives a small but noticeable boost to a class of units that often struggle to justify their cost.
     
  13. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    More generally, though, I do like ITS seasonal rules as a playground for tweaks to underperforming categories of units or mechanics.

    The TAG boost was very popular with few complaints - TAGs are well loved models but often hard to include in lists.

    The MI boost helps some units that are slow and expensive, but other MI are already well-tuned and this felt excessive on them. There are definitely MI that need a review, but this tweak was too broad.

    AD changes - I really liked it, as I often find Combat Jump too restrictive. It’s going to be incredibly terrain dependent, however, and I can see how it would be too much on some kinds of tables.
     
    inane.imp and Hachiman Taro like this.
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It also just makes sense. Look at the size of the Combi Rifles on the Gecko compared to an Alguacile's. Those are not the same level of firepower.
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yeah... I should probably go ham with my FD L2 Marauders while I can.
     
  16. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Yeah I'd like it if some ITS tweaks that work for the general game like FAT1 on TAGs got folded into the main game. Guess with the 'living rulebook' approach that becomes more possible too. On the other hand, some that just keep things interesting for a season are ok too, particularly bigger meta shifty ones. I feel like the AD one for this season is more one of those, though I wouldn't be adverse to a smaller one (like EVO bonus stacking with Controlled Jump, or maybe even one of those letting you walk on from the back of your opponents deployment) staying around. Being able to drop in the tiniest of gaps is fun but can be a bit much sometimes IMHO tho.
     
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  17. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    With Xenotech though, I do actually think it can be ok. After playing it for a while I can see how it's more than an order tax. Once pople start assassinating the model linked to it, it starts to open up a few different tactics (do I just sync it with a warcor, or something tougher? Do I use my Lt order for it?, My Datatracker? When have too many eggs gone into that basket? How many resources are worth it to kill / delay the escort? etc etc).

    If it is to go forward it just could use a) a way to affect the odds (some bonus for listbuilding / playing to it) and b) to feature in missions it suits as flavour rather than be so ubiquitous.
     
  18. SpectralOwl

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    +1 to the TAG Fat1 Forever.
    I do also like the idea of more consistent rules in ITS like the Datatracker always having the same list of perks. So far, I've found the Combat Jump buff to be excellent; my local store has incredibly dense urban tables and under the old rules there were only about 3 places on the board that the skill could even be used, and the chance of missing and predictable landing sites meant that the extra cost for Combat Jump was usually wasted.

    The idea of the troop that the Xenotech is synch'd to granting bonuses is solid gold, I would absolutely play that.

    The theme is another interesting aspect that could be explored more, I'm fond of stories and enjoyed Game #32 of Comms Center a good bit more during Kurage Crisis when it had that extra context from the background and the stakes that something of the greater story of Infinity could be changed by victory or defeat. Maybe doing something like ALIVE again could be fun, but this time without the arbitrary punishment of humans.
     
    Hachiman Taro likes this.
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    As a TO these fuckers have been the bane of my existence this entire season. "Can I put this tall terrain to LOF block in the middle of the table? Wait, no core link sniper tower of doom."
     
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  20. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    This season was named "Xenotech" and tied into the plot of Third Offensive, so I'm guessing that's probably going to be removed entirely in 11, to be replaced with something else. It's on the level of the ALIVE team.