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Steel Phalanx

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by yoink101, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. yoink101

    yoink101 Well-Known Member

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    There was a time when I think putting Thorakitae in a core team or mixing Agema marksmen into fireteams would have been too powerful. The time is passed. When Kamau snipers, Haidao snipers, Aquila Guards, and Vet Kazaks can link with 10-12 point line troops, mixing Steel Phalanx teams or giving Thorakitae a core team is not longer game breaking. Especially because Phalanx has functionally no access to deployables or token states.
     
  2. Pander22

    Pander22 Active Member

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    Not a huge fan of mixed links myself feel like if i dont take a mixed link im hampering myself which is a shame. Just got to learn some dirty first turn tricks but i dont like the way infinity is heading with link teams
     
  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Not having Marker states isn't a huge problem but it's the lack of deployable/ area denial weapons that really hurts, as it is is incredibly easy for warbands to outflank then make a mess by either slapping a chain rifle on an entire team (or trivially taking down a hero in CC in the case of monks). It's also means the options we have to stop incoming aggression is through expensive pieces, which is a good way to bleed orders and points really quickly.
     
  4. Minos

    Minos Νίκη ἢ Θάνατος
    Warcor

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    I agree with all the above. The Steel Phalanx keeps working well, but cannot compete with the versatility of the new fireteams.
    At the time it was created, the Enomotarchos rule was meant to reflect the flexibility of the Phalanx; now, it's a constraint, especially with Thorakitai. Plus: I rarely have more than two Enomotarchos teams, so this part of the rule is more a joke than anything else.

    The easier solution to fix all these problems would be simple though: mixed Enomotarchos teams.
    Ex : Enomotarchos leader (X) + 2 (X) + 1 (Y) (that is, a Myrmidon leader + 2 Myrmidons + 1 Thorakites, or a Thorakites leader + 2 Thorakitai + 1 Myrmidon); the Dactyls being Wildcards. I'd love to see that.
     
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  5. D_acolyte

    D_acolyte Active Member

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    I got into the game with Steel Phalanx a little over 2 years ago. I have some definite opinion on fire teams and characters.
    First: A lot of Steel Phalanx characters are dated in what there rules do and how they interact. It is no wonder that 3 of the 4 listed fire teams are contain a model with MSV 2 or greater, often with sniper rifles.
    Second: Where the fire teams work well vs there contemporaries up till 3rd offensive, really only loosing to expensive MSV links and the JSA msv 2 shockmarksmen rifle in a link, with 3rd offensive and later books we see a dramatic change in how fireteams are formed and by extension work which all other secs have problems with but because we are not allowed cores only exasperates the problems, I blame wild cards. Some people have called this a "fair" fight vs myrmidons.
    Third: with the rise of these new forces and we see a change in design with NWI in recognition of 2 things: cheap heavy infantry and to make profiles worth taking in the land of shock. Neither of these have extended to Steel Phalanx. I feel the best example of this is the Mukhtar MSV 2 Redfury, which is a great gunfighter with Mimetism and MSV2 plus is resilient with NWI and Shock immune while invalidating previous NWI designs as it has a shock weapon. This is actually something I really hate to see, a model designed to counter something but is also effectively immune to its own counters.
    Four: Agema Marksmen are outclassed or not effective. Fireteams, already outclass Agema everywhere. There has also been a slight rise in albedo and HD+. I feel like the Agema Marksmen needs something more to help it.

    A few things I want:
    Things I want to see in Steel Phalanx is a overhaul to Agema Marksmen, I do not want Mimetism on them but something more interesting like maybe marksmenship level X, full auto level L1, or Sixth Sense L2. Mimitism + MSV 2 makes a good gunfighter but it also makes it the same as others.
    Thamyris with a HD+ or white noise upgrade, give us a reason to take him and make it a supportive reason. With white noise we can get some defense we can shoot through while we move up the board trying not to die from MSV 2 link fire.
    More indirect fire options, this way if we encounter a "fair" fight we can engage it a different way. I am envious of the Moira EM grenade launcher but it does not have to be that.
    Our NCO models to have NCO.... this seems like an obvious one, we have 3 models with NCO in there titles.

    I mean there are new units I want but I think this list is good enough for starters.

    PS: I REALLY HATE NON CHARACTER WILDCARDS!!!!
     
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  6. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    When SP was released they were unique, only link was basically 5 man link with every trooper being same, and only maybe 1 faction had harris. Now everyone and they mother has ability for 5 man, harris, duo, on top of that wild cards are left and right.
    Also, every new profile has usually shock protection and/or cheap SMG...

    SP is quite outdated in what made them unique...as time goes, CB are making factions less and less unique to what they were.
     
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  7. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I would disagree with you on this, I would argue that their role as changed from aro/ troubleshooter duty with the MSR and ML (a spot that was already superseded by teucer and atalanta), to more of a solo active turn hunter. The MK12 profile of on it's own in group 2 I have often found to be invaluable in making space for the primary fireteam to operate or to just go on a murder spree.
     
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  8. Savant

    Savant Lhosthost
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    curious if you'd clarify how they can't compete with modern fireteam design?
     
    #8 Savant, Nov 10, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  9. Minos

    Minos Νίκη ἢ Θάνατος
    Warcor

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    I think they cannot compete only in terms of versatility. If you watch, for example, Varuna, you can end up to some extent linking fusiliers, orcs, kamau, machinist, ML drone, Patsy. You can have the perfect tool you want for AROs, long range agression or objectives. And you can easily reform the teams with the ad hoc profiles during the game.
    With SP, the choices are very restricted: only two specialist profiles and two (not so) long range shooters in Myrm teams, only one AROer. The Thorakitai are more versatile, but less mobile, and forced to take Alkê or Thrasymedes.
    I'm happy with the Phalanx and still have a lot of fun with it, but, for example, if I could link a SWC Thorakites in a Myrm team for ARO during the first turn, then reform and go ahead with a cheap and good FO for objectives, that would be nice! Above all, it would help to change the usual lists.
     
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  10. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I like that the fireteams are more or less defined as it suits the backstory of the units and feel of the army, and frankly mixed fireteams should be brought down as opposed to everything being brought up. Myrm teams are plenty versatile on the specialist front in that you can embedd a doctor, hacker and COC with a solid support weapon, while they lack long range weapons that's part of their design Myrms are close assault/shock troops not fire support, that's what the 'Kites and agema are for (and are arguably better at it as you lose less points when they inevitably get put down).

    I would much prefer our other non fire team options get looked at to help cover some (not all) of the sectorial's weaknesses, such as access to mines and minelayers/ drop bears, a HD+ (preferably on Thamrys), and a KHD on the ekdromoi (speaking of can we please get an Assault pistol on the AHD/ base profile please?).
     
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  11. Kortz

    Kortz Active Member

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    I like how our Fireteams work, that 2-4 group of a defined type of troops suits the backstory and gives a flavor that i like. But i'm also on the idea that SP right know needs to keep that style while having more flexibility or, maybe on a better wording: more options of the focused styles that their FTs creates.
    To archive this, while not completely entering on the mixed links options, maybe it would be better to add some new options to existing characters. SP has 19 characters, 10 of them can be in a fireteam, 6 of them just have one profile (+ the LT option on most of them) So if 1 or 2 new profiles are made of some of those characters, so that they can bring different things to the FT they can be. For example what about a Phoenix with a mid- short range weapon a tiny bit cheaper and cost no SWC (Heavy shotgun and something more could be a good example) ...Acmon with a SWC weapon (Redfury?)... Alke with lower SWC weapons (Assault pistol + 2 contenders?) This examples are just quick thoughts but you get the Idea and the same goes for some of the line troops, Maybe a FO Myrmidon with Shotgun? A Dactyl that is a Specialist operative + shotgun or submachine gun or a medic dactyl with .5 SWC(Multi rifle and pitcher?) Things that keeps the same unit requirement for each SP fireteam but with the added profile would lead to different members, price and utility.
    Finally is not like im not open to some options of mixed fireteams, im thinking something that keeps the Enomotarchos fireteam almost intact... maybe one or two special and specific fireteams (thinking of a mixed FT, maybe the only Core on the sectorial, that needs Hector as a must, a couple of specific Enomotarchos, approaching the Ft definitions that can be found on Foreign Company or Ikari but on a really low quantity. Some not really well thought examples could be one with a specific Agema profile + Dactyls and some Rem. Something that allows the lonely characters be in a specific FT like Thamiris, Andromeda or Teucer + a certain unit(Something named like "Special fireteam" Thorakitai, similar to the Harris profiles on many other armies) and other 2 opens slots for a specific type of troop?
    This Way the SP keeps their style, specializes on them by adding versatility in their defined frame and their unique fireteam while having some new options that do not replace the existing ones.
     
    #11 Kortz, Nov 11, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  12. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    I've started playing infinity with steel phalanx and current situation makes me upset.
    As it was mentioned here before there're a lot of units with approximately same pricing at the same niche but better.
    Actually, when ramah was released, i understood that it is phalanx but better.

    If not totally reworking, i think there are several changes to make for phalanx:
    1) single wound characters must get shock immunity, c'mon Phoenix costs as a tank but dies after the first shock crit.
    2) torakites must have an access to 5man link, or at least msv 1 option. Because effective bs 12 against model in cover is not enough when we're talking about kamau sniper and so on
    3) since phalanx best of all plays in a single group, there should be tactical awareness options
    4) give myrmidons any additional specialist option in addition to ahd, at current meta every ahd is a free frag
     
    #12 epsilon, Nov 14, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  13. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Strongly disagree, while SP can operate well with a SCG, it runs significantly better with 14-16, as that allows for you to have your assault team, fire support team, and other supporting units you help either free up the main elements of the list or do other tool boxy things to help with the mission, that being things like specialists, odd attack vectors or sensor so you don't get overwhelmed by an enemy's midfield.

    A Myrm with an AHD can do a significant amount of classifieds (which is far more important this season than slapping buttons), the biggest draw back is the ability to protect it, if we had 1 or 2 more KHDs that can be embedded in fireteams (like on a Wildcard Dactyl, or FTO Scylla) it would become less of a liability.
     
  14. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    I clearly don't know how to make a viable 14-16 orders other than taking only the cheapest crap.))

    Talking about myrmidon ahd, I've mentioned it's vulnerability. If you don't have first move, than your opponent will either kill it and make link weaker, or put his khd in counter position to your possible movement.


    BTW I'd give pentisellia a specialist rule, or paramedic.
    Cos phalanx really lacks of midfield specialists.
    Even andromeda didn't get her best option within phalanx
     
    #14 epsilon, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  15. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Steel Phalanx
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    MACHAON Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    EUDOROS Mk12, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 40)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    THRASYMEDES (Fireteam: Enomotarchos) Submachine gun, Light Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 30)
    THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    THORAKITES Paramedic (Medikit, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    ATALANTA MULTI Sniper Rifle + TinBot E (Spotter) / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    ALKÊ Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 25)
    THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    THORAKITES Paramedic (Medikit, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)
    NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)

    4 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    De nada.
     
  16. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    SMG and chain rifle spam. Let's hope you're not playing second vs anything that can pick you at mid range
     
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  17. epsilon

    epsilon Member

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    As i said - cheapest units.
    It's quite a glass hammer, that's why i don't believe in such lists. However i Don't say the list is bad.
    As for aro - Phoenix is much better than thrasimedes. But he costs as two models.
    And this what I'm talking about. Yes, irs possible to create a two group list, but models put in it will be outclassed by your opponent
     
    #17 epsilon, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  18. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    My Ariadna would love to take that list, doesn't have single dangerous unit I would fear from SP. Almost 0 threat in my active turn, yea, you have atlanta...I am quite sure that Specnaz HMG will take short work of her(and anything that you left as ARO piece, since after her your threat range is like 24" with Mk12/spitfire, and single failed save means you die...)...so with her done, some mines/flamers/templates will do short work of rest.

    If I go second...well, have fun vs 10+ camo markers, some mines etc...
     
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  19. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    That's right. I prefer going first with this list. If I do go second I castle up. That is field everyone on total cover and rather close to the edge of the table. Hug walls and preferably avoid even shortish firelanes. Make your opponent waste orders moving upfields with MOV-MOV. If the opponent gets up close, start chucking out smoke nades on 16s rolling two dice. That's the best defense possible save for TR bots and the like. Once in smoke, your opponent can't shoot you. And good luck CCing your Myrms.
    Few armies are not at disadvantage when going second. (Pesky little Kamau snipers linked with his pesky little buddies…) Well, this is not one of them.
    Weather the storm if you go secound, then shoot the advancing enemy to shreds with Atalanta, Eudoros and Alke. Push buttons later.
     
    #19 Káosz Brigodéros, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  20. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Actually the cheapest units are 8-points bots I avoided. The cheapish units are not bad by any means. Everybody goes ARM2-3, Myrms get smoke (two dice on 16s as mentioned above) and ODD, Thoras are specialists with SMG (access to Supressive Fire) with 360 visor. Everybody and his buddy has direct template weapons.
    I agree Thrasy is the weakest trooper in the list. Phoenix would be better but more expensive and the specialist profiles of Myrms are rather expensive.
    Played this list extensively. Never felt my troopers to be outclassed…
     
    #20 Káosz Brigodéros, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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