Hi Guys, I'm playing in an ITS league and the next Mission is Show of Force and I want to know what you would bring to the table in abscene of a TAG. Thought of Achilles, a Thorakitai link with a Feuerbach and maybe Teucer. Have to prepare for an enemy TAG so heavy weapons will be mandatory. Ideas? Thx in advance Antonius
Achilles alone should be enough to either kill the TAG or kill everything around it, leaving it without any order. Just remember to put him in a safe position at the end of your turn, so that the opponent can't kill him easily. If the TAG stay in a safe position, just chip away his orders. If the TAG ever move, you can make him waste a lot of orders with your smokes. You can also lock the TAG in CC with any myrmidon if it goes too far from it's deployment zone. Smoke your way to it, engage it, and ... let them be. The opponent will have a hard time removing a myrmidon from the engaged state. You don't really need heavy weapons to defeat a TAG with the greeks. They ARE the heavy weapons :p
Steel phalanx's best method for TAG killing is probably shooting at it through smoke using Teucer. Using smoke to reach melee with Achilles, Hector or Ajax will also kill it dead - Ajax is the cheapest so if you just want a suicidal guided missile he's great
If you field a feuerbach Teucer and your opponent let his TAG in sight of him, then yes, you'll make short work of it. And it's quite deserved. Now you will probably not field Teucer to begin with, since he's that expensive, or the opponent won't let you shoot it as easily. If you have Achilles: shoot at it. If possible, out of cover, even if you have to be out of cover yourself. Only goes into melee if you have no other alternative, because it will cost you more orders to reach melee especially if you count on smoke, it's less reliable, and if you fail, you can't easily retreat. Pray the opponent doesn't have a sensor guy, or else Achilles will just be shot to death by his triangulated fire without being able to even react. Spoiler: Achilles vs Jotums, range 40-60 cm, both no cover Active Player 52.58% Achilles inflicts 1 or more wounds on Jotums (2 STR) 15.39% Achilles inflicts 2 or more wounds on Jotums (1 STR) 2.30% Achilles inflicts 3 or more wounds on Jotums (Unconscious) 0.14% Achilles inflicts 4 or more wounds on Jotums (Unconscious 2) Failures 41.57% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 5.85% Jotums inflicts 1 or more wounds on Achilles (2 W) 4.65% Jotums inflicts 2 or more wounds on Achilles (1 W) 1.88% Jotums inflicts 3 or more wounds on Achilles (Unconscious) You will need on average 5-6 orders to put it unconscious (and it's the TAG with the best armor). But the setup is rather easy, you just need a line of sight with no cover. Spoiler: Achilles vs Jotums, Melee, Jotums defending Active Player 73.74% Achilles inflicts 1 or more wounds on Jotums (2 STR) 45.31% Achilles inflicts 2 or more wounds on Jotums (1 STR) 18.89% Achilles inflicts 3 or more wounds on Jotums (Unconscious) 5.18% Achilles inflicts 4 or more wounds on Jotums (Unconscious 2) 0.82% Achilles inflicts 5 or more wounds on Jotums (Dead) Failures 18.57% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 7.69% Jotums inflicts 1 or more wounds on Achilles (2 W) You will need on average around 3 orders. But how many more to reach the TAG ? In fact, when dealing with a TAG, the setup is more important than the weapon, really Spoiler: 28 pts BSG ekdromos from behind Active Player 59.29% Ekdromoi inflicts 1 or more wounds on Jotums (2 STR) 14.78% Ekdromoi inflicts 2 or more wounds on Jotums (1 STR) Failures 32.65% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 8.06% Jotums Dodges Ekdromoi 1 order to land from a bit more than 20 cm, then move+shoot. Around 5-6 orders as well, through the jotums player can also just tank the first hit then use alert to change facing (but this may open other possibilities for you). But unless the TAG is exposed, it's probably easier and safer to hunt the orders.
IF: Achilles + Limited Insertion THEN: possible to reach melee against the TAG (get V2!! +2 ARM is better in melee, and inmunne to losing the ODD due to fire). ELSE: Enomotarchos with Ajax OR Eudoros (linked or not). My Eudoros Link usually goes with the Chain of Command BSG Myrmidon Officer (that can be shed on route) and 2 Chain Rifle Myrmidons, for happy 4 hits in melee... An Agema shooting from behind smoke is also a good way to scrap enemy TAGs, if more order intensive than banging their heads with their own legs :p Bottom line, disposing of an enemy TAG with Steel Phalanx depends more on what are the enemy's reactive troops than your own forces. My best strategy in Vanilla has been to engage the enemy Sphinx in melee with 2 Myrmidons (bodyguards for my Spitfire Asura) while a TO camo revealed herself as a Mk2 AHD in range of the Sphinx... leaving the thing effectively locked: the Sphinx need to do a Dodge to get out, but eats AHD hacking (overlord in ARO is good, Total Control is also good, Oblivion is the least interesting of the three but still useful), and the two myrmidons have a great chance to hit anyway, etc... Granted it depends on the enemy TAG coming for you, but still... xD
I think you're underestimating how good climbing plus is at getting things in line of sight when you have the smoke support available in Steel Phalanx, especially with him having forward deployment for being a medium infantry this season. I agree on Teucer being too expensive in general though; A myrmidon fireteam is much, much better in general - I feel he's a strong contender if you're specifically building a TAG killer list though. Teucer vs Jotum, both in cover, using marksmanship LX Teucer 69.39% Teucer (MSV 2) inflicts 1 or more wounds on Jotums (2 STR) 23.18% Teucer (MSV 2) inflicts 2 or more wounds on Jotums (1 STR) Failures 24.33% Neither player succeeds Jotum 6.27% Jotums inflicts 1 or more wounds on Teucer (MSV 2) (0 W) 4.63% Jotums inflicts 2 or more wounds on Teucer (MSV 2) (Dead) You can expect a dead Jotum in 4 turns
Smoke and kill the TAG in melee. That usually the best way to handle a TAG anyway, and SP has *plenty* of troops capable of doing that both by themselves or - better yet - as a group. You also have access to eclipso for the pesky MSV2 rearguard that might be watching the TAG. Melee is one of the best way to handle a TAG in the first place.
Didnt hear penny or ajax yet as cheap CC engagement options, so I figured id mention them. Penny has oddikhol -12 against the last aro, high move, and mono ccw. Ajax is tougher, has a higher burst in active to counter AROs, and can punch down any high cc capables as well. Both are nearly the same price as achilles together.
True, i forgot he now has climbing+. Even if his movement is subpar, that should allows him to get some nice line of sights. Well, maybe because they are not cheap ^^ I'm kidding, Ajax is quite cheap for what he brings. Penny is rather expensive through, and remember that iKhol don't work on STR targets, meaning she is not that good for TAG hunting even if her monoblade would be good against it. Penny is good for killing the cheerleaders through.
I-Khol does not work against STR models, meaning won't work against TAG. She can TAG-Hunt, but it's not the best tool for it. Ajax in a Myrm-link can get there better, and if the link has 2-3 chain rifle myrms then it will blow the tag in a single order (4 EXP Berserker hits rolling 1d20+more than 10...). He will eat a single wound (engage through smoke to avoid BS attacks as response), but wrecked TAG quaranteed for 16*3+40 points. As for Teucer, the increase in cost with the Climbing plus kills him in a lot of lists, since for ground-hunting from behind smoke a 27pts 0.5SWC mk12 Agema (with Xvisor) is quite good anyway...
Nenyx also raised a great point at the end of their first post that bears repeating. Hunting and killing cheerleaders is often a much better strategy than going for a TAG itself, and a list built around cheerleader killing is often is much scarier to a lot more lists than a list built around killing TAGs. Penny is pretty good for this, as has been mentioned. I love the Ekdromos myself, and pretty much all its options are awesome; It often comes down to how your local meta sets up backline terrain - I often face tables with long sightlines along the back so I'm partial to the HMG
Fireteam of myrmidons, smoke and lots of stabbing. I’d say, the Phalanx is probably the army, that is the least bothered by TAGs - unless that TAG happens to be a marut
I’d use pat to hunt down a tag. Fast movement brings his own smoke and decoys. Plus he is mi so gets a little boost down the table. Maybe not the best option but he has a great toolbox to get around or through a lot of stuff that can be used to screen a tag.