So I've been discussing this with some friends, and here's the situation: The Stealth skill has a single requisite, that being that the model is in it's active turn. The effects are: Allows the user to make Cautious Movementsinside the Zone of Control of an enemy. A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them. However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO. If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state. The problem is in the last point: some argue that this only works if you are out of LoS, because it's been talking all the time about cautious movement, so if you have a model with stealth and engage another model from the front with the 1st action of our order they can shoot you. The others argue that nowhere does it say that you have to be out of LoS in that last point, and it says you have to declare "movement" (not cautious mov.) and declare a 2nd order (wich you couldn't if you declared cautious because it's a full order), so it's entire point seems to be to allow Stealthy troopers to charge that last trech to their enemys without eating a flamethrower. Basically, they argue you can get all the conditions in the skill and the last bullet point even if you're charging someone from the front (so from it's LoS), so if you have say a Shaolin in front of a fusilier, and your first order is to move base to base, the fusilier can only melee/dodge you. What do you guys think? Thanks for your time. Enviado desde mi EVA-L09 mediante Tapatalk
Okay I think I got it. First can't declare cautious movement if the enemy has los on you... so no avoiding flame thrower of you come from the front. If you can actually approach from out of Los and you go base to base you give them a free h2h attack as they can see you when you enter base to base. Sooo stealth helps you bypass and maybe avoid other aros but does not make you a kill machine auto winner in all other cases. Boy do I wish it did as I am a jsa player. There is some link team stealth nonsense out there because of the faq, but I'll avoid that toxic subject and continue to not employ any of those shenanigans.
The rules for this are a little funny, but the first group has it right. If you can see a stealth trooper before it enters BtB, you can react without any special restrictions. The issue is that once you are in base contact, the opponent automatically gains LoF. http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Line_of_Fire_(LoF)#LoF_of_Figures_in_CC Figures engaged in CC can draw a 360˚ LoF, but only to whatever they are in base contact with. Stealth is effective if the reactive trooper did not have LoF until the special LoF granted by base contact. This means you need to be completely behind the model or under a zero vis zone. Camo is insufficient; you can draw LoF to a camo or impersonation marker. The main purpose of the final bullet point is so that you can move-move with stealth and not have it be worse than move-move without stealth. Without stealth, your first move will force the opponent to declare a change facing ARO, which you can then use to enter BtB without fear of counterattack. If entering BtB with stealth allowed the opponent to react normally, they would be able to attack you with a normal roll at the end of a move-move.
There's a decent example of how stealth works, but it's hidden on the camo page: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Camou...ASE_TO_BASE_CONTACT_WITH_AN_ENEMY_FACING_AWAY EXAMPLE OF CAMOUFLAGE AND HIDING, STEALTH AND BASE TO BASE CONTACT WITH AN ENEMY FACING AWAY In his Active Turn, a SAS in the Camouflage Marker (CAMO) state declares the first Short Skill of his Order: Moving into base to base contact with an enemy Fusilier who is with his back towards him. Since the S.A.S. possesses also the Stealth Special Skill, his target cannot declare ARO against a Short Movement Skill declared inside his Zone of Control but out of his LoF. However, the Fusilier can declare ARO if the S.A.S.' second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Short Skill. In such situation, the Fusilier can only declare a CC Attack or Dodge ARO (or Reset, but the S.A.S. is not a Hacker), as he is in Engaged state. If there would not be base to base contact, then the Fusilier could declare Change Facing as ARO.
What we don't see is what forbids a player from using the 4th bullet point if the enemy sees him. It doesn't mention cautious movement but a move order. - all requisites (being in your active turn) are met. - you declare a Move order and end in B2B - your 2nd order is not a "Movement" order. Does the "out of LoF" form the 2nd point carry over? (So, the different effecs have to met all the previous requirements) Then I feel like it shouldn't be in different bullet points, or add a "from outside the LoF" to the last one. Thanks for your time and help! Enviado desde mi EVA-L09 mediante Tapatalk
For some odd reason, the layouter chose not to do this anywhere in the book, which is hurting logocal parsing in some cases: EFFECTS Allows the user to make Cautious Movements inside the Zone of Control of an enemy. A trooper with Stealth that declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies but outside their LoF does not grant AROs to those enemies, even if he reaches base contact with them. However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO. If the Movement of the trooper with Stealth ends in base to base contact with an enemy and declares any non-Movement Short Skill, then the enemy can only declare CC Attack, Dodge, Reset, or those Skills that can be used in Engaged state. To your last question: Yes, points 3 and 4 are both logically conditional on 2, which is to say they are two different special cases of what happens when a trooper moves using Stealth and then with a short skill does something without Stealth.
The 3rd point is obvious because it starts with a nice "however", but starting with "if" made it look like an independent rule Enviado desde mi EVA-L09 mediante Tapatalk
I'm not sure how the 4th bullet point even comes into effect in this situation. As an example, Angus has Stealth and is moving towards Bipandra: First short skill: A declares Move, describing a path that brings him into B's LoF, distance is measured and A reaches B. As B had LoF she immediately gets an ARO and declares BS Attack. Second Short Skill: A declares CC Attack and it is a Face to Face. ---- In order for the 4th bullet point to kick in A would need to reach CC without first causing an ARO, such as moving into CC from out of LoF.
yep, walking towards a model from the front arc may cause a lead indigestion, that for sure However the 4th point should be clarified/rewrited. It doesn't look like a subordinate clause at all; but like an special case that let models walk into CC from the front arc generating no ARO in the way in if the second short skill is any non movement skill
