stealth and 6th sense

Good riddance to it. That rule caused so many damned headaches and bad situations.

Do note that Stealth is Optional, so the Sixth Sense trooper is not more vulnerable for having the skill.

 

The new 6th Sense is godlike. Straight PH roll to move 2” when anything moves in ZoC. No way to bypass this ability.

 

@jackfrost yes, you are correct. 6th sense got a partial nerf.

 

Sort of. The Requirements of a Skill aren't checked until the Resolution Step of the Order, but you still need to follow the rest of the rules for that Skill. And for BS Attacks that involves allocating Burst to targets that are in LoF when you declare the Skill.

 

So how would it work if say you had sixth sense and thought someone walking behind you was withing zone of control (but you can't be sure because you can't measure it yet) so you declare a hacking program against them. At the end of their first move they are not inside of ZOC, but then they move for their 2nd skill and enter ZOC. When you declared the hack they were not a valid target for your hacking because they were out of ZOC (just like the reactive player in the earlier post did not have a valid shoot target at the end of the active players first action). But after the 2nd action of the active player they became a valid target, so when the resolution step comes they can be hacked (just like the active player that shoots the sixth sense model in the back would have become a valid target to be shot back).

In this example would the hack fail because they did not have a valid target when the reaction was initially declared? What if the sixth sense player thinks that they aren't in 8 of the active player after the first half of the order so thinks they have to wait, but then it turns out the active player had been within 8 so they would have had to have declared their order after the first half, and not waited to be shot at?

 

@obyiscus

1. You’d check the validity of the ARO during step 5 ARO Check, and find out that you had a valid ARO. In the Resolution step you’d check if you’ve fulfilled the Requirments of the Hacking Program.

2. This, unfortunately, is where the use-it-or-lose-it nature of AROs kicks in. :-( If you guess wrong, and fail to declare an ARO against the first Short Skill, you’ve lost your chance to ARO.

@jackfrost

1. Yeah, I’m well aware of that, but that’s the route CB decided to take.

2. That’s not game-breaking in N4, you just declare your Hacking ARO and then find out if it worked.

 

@ijw I think I know what you're saying but want to be sure for clarity. This was actually an unresolved question for me in N3 (or it may have been answered but I forgot) so I'm happy to sort it out right off the top in N4.

1. Active unit activates, spends order, and declares Move. The movement is not in LoF of the reactive unit. The move takes the active unit somewhere close to the reactive unit's ZoC, but we're not sure if it's quite reached it.

2. Reactive player decides that he thinks the active unit is inside his ZoC. He declares a ZoC ARO (say, Dodge).

3. Active unit declares a second Move, and moves closer to reactive unit.

4. N/A, reactive can't declare a new ARO because he has already declared one.

5. We check, and find that the active unit was NOT in the reactive's ZoC at step 2, but is now in the ZoC because of the second Move at step 3.

Does the reactive unit resolve a Dodge, or an Idle?

I'm pretty sure you're saying it's an Idle, because the unit didn't have an ARO at the time it was declared, so it fails step 5. (It would pass step 6 because it now meets the Requirements for Dodge, but it doesn't get that far because it fails step 5 by not having had an ARO at all when declared). Is that right?

Follow-up question: at step 4, can the reactive player say "I declare Dodge. I realize my declaration may fail because I've already declared an ARO (which was also Dodge), but IF my first declaration turns out to have been invalid, then I will now get a new ARO from your second movement and it will be Dodge."?

 

No. See step 5:

5. ARO Check: Check that eachTrooper that declared an ARO has been in one of the situations that makes their ARO declaration valid. If they have not, they are considered to have declared an Idle.

Because the enemy has moved closer, 'has been in one of the situations that makes their ARO declaration valid' is fulfilled.

 

Yes, because else, you could perfectly walk around triggering area for mines, outside hacking areas and ZoC, a little uncertainty is needed for those traps to spring.

 

I still think the reactive player should be allowed to measure ZoC of non-null troopers who may have a ZoC (but no LoF) ARO at the point AROs are to be declared (ie after the active trooper declares a skill and any associated movement paths). This could be limited to measuring 8” towards the active model, limited to a single reactive trooper per ARO, requiring the active player to look the other way for a moment, etc. to avoid misuse by That Guy. The whole thing where you play a guessing game based on your ability to eyeball 8 inches, and if you guess wrong you lose your ARO, is both unintuitive and annoying. The game already favors the active turn player plenty, letting the reactive player know clearly whether they do or do not have a valid opportunity to ARO seems like it would be a quality of life improvement.

“You must do X when Y occurs.”
“Okay, cool, how do I know when Y occurs?”
“Haha not telling, you have to guess!”
“...not cool, bro.”

 

Except that this has changed in N4, as covered in this freaking thread.

If you’re expecting a ZoC ARO (because LoF ones are always clear anyway), just declare the ARO and see if it becomes valid.

Sorry for the exasperated tone, but I’m starting to get irritated at people not bothering to read stuff. :-(

 

hu ... and if the unit is in camo state, when is it that you reveal what trooper it is ?

Exemple : I move trooper A near ennemi trooper B. Trooper B is in camo state. Player B says "I think i'm in ZoC. I will declare dodge". Does he reveal what is the trooper under the camo marker ? Or do we wait until the resolution phase ? (which may change what player A does with his second skill).

 

When you declare the Skill, as stated in the first Cancellation bullet for the State.

'The Camouflaged State is cancelled whenever:
► The Camouflaged Marker declares an Attack, Look Out!, or any Skill that requires a Roll.

My emphasis.

 

So to confirm a small situation:

A Camo Marker moves into a 6th Sense Units ZOC but out of LOF.
6th Sense can only declare Dodge (or reset). Discover & Lookout require LOF.
Camo Marker does surprise attack, 6th Sense gets to ignore the surprise attack penalty.

However, Camo specifically mentions this:
► When a Trooper in Camouflaged state is activated, each Reactive Trooper can delay the declaration of their ARO until the second half of the Active Trooper’s Order has been declared.

This doesn't specify that you can only delay if they are in LOF, only that they have to be a REACTIVE trooper, which a 6th sense trooper is, since they ignore stealth.

With this reading, cant a 6th sense Delay against a camo in ZoC but not in LoF?

 

If it's a camo marker, then I think so, yes. Any time a trooper has an ARO against a camo marker, they can delay their ARO.

It's not Sixth Sense specific, since camo units don't automatically have stealth anymore. If a camo marker without stealth moves within ZoC of any trooper, that trooper can delay their ARO.