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Starco tactica?

Discussion in 'StarCo' started by Qrow, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Qrow

    Qrow New Member

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    Fairly new player here, both to starco and infinity in general, would any of the more veteran players be up for making a Starco tactica post similar to what other factions have in their forums?
     
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  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... that's probably not a bad idea. In the meantime I recommend the Nomad one.
     
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  3. Qrow

    Qrow New Member

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    Thanks for the idea, I have already had a look through the other tactica for the units from their factions, but it is a little harder to find ideas and reviews for the mercenary units and Starco specific link teams.

    I'll ask some of the things I have been considering:
    1. Has anyone had success running two Anacondas in a duo?
    2. Is Knauf worth the points?
    3. What are the biggest weaknesses/strengths of Starco?
    4. Riot grrl vs mobile brigada links teams, what is your preference and why?
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    1. And I probably wouldn't. Anacondas are a touch expensive for what you get. The biggest advantage of the Annie duo is what it allows you to do with a MB.

    2. Yes... but Caterans are a thing. I'd tend to grab a Cateran over Knauf. Caterans tend to be better than their price. There's probably a use case where Knauf is better (LI perhaps?) but not one I've come across.

    3. StarCo is a 'narrow' faction. This means that there are less options for how you build lists. The classic Raoul + Emily Core + Brawler MSV2 Haris list is an example: it's an extremely solid list... but it's as close as Infinity gets to 'net-listing'. Old-school MO was very similar this way. It means list building with StarCo is much more limited than with most other factions (particularly Nomads).

    The other key limitation is the lack of a mid-priced link. I would really love to run a Brawler link, but instead it's Algs or HI. :'(

    I think StarCo is the only faction to get Links, MSV2, White Noise, Eclipse and regular Smoke. Which is basically StarCo's schtick: it gets top tier features almost across the board but is restricted in how you put them together.

    4. Grrls are stupid and have cooties. The MB Paintrain is absolutely playable in StarCo... But Grrls are considered one of the strongest links in the game for a reason. Adding Avi or Emily to the Grrls link changes it a little but doesn't really undermine it's strengths while adding a little versatility. OTOH the MB Paintrain, while it gains interesting options still struggles with the fundamental MB problem: you don't get enough bang for your buck, and need to compromise elsewhere.

    That being said, in a mission that called for an aggressive link (Frontline is a decent option) I think MB may edge out Grrls. Although the Grrls Haris provides a solid alternative.
     
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  5. Qrow

    Qrow New Member

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    Thank you!

    I have had success with the tinbot MB and an Anaconda, as one of the players in my meta plays extremely hacker heavy, but thanks for the heads up on the duo Anacondas.

    I had the same thoughts about Knauf and the Cateran, I wasn't sure if it was just my love for T2 ammo pushing through though.

    Who would you suggest as the 5th member in the RG link? I tend to take Avicenna for emergency HI healing, and I feel that Emily would be better either by herself or in a different link. Again, new player so I may be missing something, but what does Emily bring to the link?

    Also, what is the "classic Raoul + Emily Core + Brawler MSV2 haris"?
     
  6. Qrow

    Qrow New Member

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    Also, is their a reason Starco doesn't have access to scarface?
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Emily brings FO and spec fire (other than Stun grenades) to the Grrls link. Usually you swap her in for the Spec Ops that goes in a 5-Grrl core. I've run her with a double ML Grrls core for the Grid to decent effect.

    It also allows you to leave Avi out of the link which offers advantages: Doctoring from inside the link can be an issue due AROs or because it prevents you getting a Zondbot. I do like the idea of a Grrls Haris with Avi for Supplies though.

    Re: Scarface. He's associated with Druze. StarCo tends to a squeaky clean reputation and doesn't go in for Highland Clearances. The unit that is truly abhorrent for missing is AVA1 Hunzakuts :'(

    Honestly though, my biggest issue with StarCo is that the Emily core + Raoul, Brawler Haris list is just so good at emphasising the faction's strengths that running anything else feels like a downgrade 'for fun' (odd missions like Grid or BTV notwithstanding). It's the equivalent of the Hospitaller-core in old-MO in that way.

    Edit: this is the base. You can add almost anything else to taste.

    [​IMG] Starco. Free Company of the Star
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] EMILY (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and E/M), Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    [​IMG] SPECTOR (AD: Combat Jump) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, E/M2 CC Weapon. (0 | 33)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)

    4 SWC | 182 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The version I prefer is this:
    [​IMG] Starco. Free Company of the Star
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18)
    [​IMG] EMILY (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and E/M), Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 15)
    [​IMG] SPECTOR (AD: Combat Jump) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, E/M2 CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] HAWWA' (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #7 inane.imp, Nov 11, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  8. Qrow

    Qrow New Member

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    Ahh coolio, thanks.

    I have noticed that some things seem like a must take, especially Raoul, I feel like not taking him is simply weakening yourself. I especially noticed this when trying to justify hellcats, replace almost any hellcat with raoul and it seems like the better choice.
     
  9. Smiler

    Smiler Well-Known Member

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    Honestly Raoul is one of the best profiles in the game. I've played Nomads, MRRF, OSS and Haqq and if they added Raoul to those armies I'd take him in 95% of my lists.
     
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  10. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Raoul is a pretty optimized Shotgun AD choice. But if you want another tool then it's fine not to take him. Hellcats with SWC weapons can handle other stuff then Raoul. And some people don't like AD in the first place a heavy Infiltration focus can also work for StarCo, the list above has both tho. ;)
     
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  11. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    This is the closest I am getting to a Brawler Link list, which uses every tool (no regular smoke but a Irregular one):

    [​IMG] Starco. Free Company of the Star
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] EMILY (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and E/M), Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
    [​IMG] UHAHU Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Pitcher, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] LUNOKHOD Heavy Shotgun, Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges, CrazyKoalas (2) / Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31)
    [​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] HAWWA' Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 26)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] STEMPLER ZOND Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I am not entirely convinced by it tho. The HI Links or Alguacil link list certainly feel more powerful. You can get Raoul in there too, if you forgo the MB Lt. but the MB is the only Lt. in StarCo that can make use of Emily's CoC. Maybe that#s a bit of a trap, never tried doing a StarCo list without Emily. Hmm...
     
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  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I find I make decent use of Brawler Lts. Mainly by putting them on short firelanes on ARO and making assassination plays against my obvious LT not worthwhile.

    I also quite often end up using their Lt order for Suppressing or similar.
     
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  13. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    Wow that was honestly a helpful answer. So much better then the old "play what you like" advice that used to be given all the time.

    1. Nope, I don't like the Anacondas to begin with.
    2. Not really. He is not bad or anything I just never use him.
    3. You are a nutckracker that can bust almost any attempt at defense but sadly the faction only has like two lists really
    4. Grrl's over Brigada even if Deadpool is a very welcomed member of the MB link.
     
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  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I think you should play what you like: you can make almost anything work with the right thinking, mission, table and opponent. You should also know when you're pushing shit uphill. But (perhaps most importantly) you should be able to choose whichever fits your mood (and hopefully your opponent's mood) at the time.

    As a result, I tend to "I wouldn't do it for these reasons, but if you want to here's what I think you need to do to give it the best chance of working."

    MB core is an example of this. I think Grrls over MB in pure 'what's more optimal'...but I fully intend to run a MB core in StarCo once I have it built.
     
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  15. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    1. Why should one do that? That's roughly 124 Points and 4 SWC bound in two troopers which can be possesed, are E/M vulnerable and can't hide properly. For the same-ish points you get the four Grrls or the three Mobile Brigadas needed for their respective special links.
    2. Depends on the overall list composition. If you want a sniper and already plan to use brawlers the MSR Brawler is the better choice due to his option to be part of a haris link. Then there is his camouflaged competitor, the Cateran, who comes for less SWC and a points difference worth an Irmandinho or a Stempler/Salyut Zond (which is an additional order). None of them has a high survival rate if attacked though (roughly 40% - 45% vs. Hospitaller HMG).
    3. As it was said before there is not much chance to vary your list builds much if you want to have a well performing list (which depends on the played mission etc.). That's mostly due to the high involvement of certain character models and the lack of reasonably cheap and reliable infiltrating specialists (exactly one: the Hawwa) on the other hand you can choose between three different Doctors/Engineers. Also the way links can be formed gives you the opportunity to really specialize your links for a certain task e.g. the Daktari Taxi for general midfield mayhem (no ML here) and the Brawler Haris for long range backup.
    4. For now clearly the Riot Grrls accompanied by Avicenna. Mostly for the aforementioned midfield mayhem and the added WIP 15 specialist who provides a lot of survivability to the the Grrls since it's almost certain to heal an unconcious Grrl. Nontheless the MB special link will be played as soon as I finished painting them. Here the healing might be a bit more difficult to perform but with Massacre's Eclipse Smoke you'll be able to minimize shootouts drastically (no LOF is always the best option for survival).
     
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  16. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    Duo advantage is to move two model at the same time, reducing order spent. Of course, you also need a reason to move them as the alternative was to move one and not the other letting one stay safe at base. You only save order if you wanted to move both, now you can move both quicker. Not sure why you want to close in with TAG (maybe the mission). Duo is better used to bring a Mobile Brigada (Deflector to share, or hacker specialist) along the Anaconda. If you were to use AVA2, most likely you are running 400Pts, and it would be better they both bring a brigada rather than bring each other to the same corner of the board.
     
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  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    What everyone else said about StarCo. One thing that does add a little freshness/flexibility to the list is using the Riot Grrl Haris with Spitfire and Avicenna alongside the Alugaciles/Emily link. That little Haris is really fun to play.

    I chose to not go for the MSV2 sniper link in my standard builds, as I play against OSS and Nomads a lot and he just gets shot by Asuras and Krazy Borats and whatnot.

    I've taken StarCo to the Interplanetario, and the German Masters this weekend. I'm definitely feeling the need for a break to some other faction to avoid a feeling of monotony.

    The MB/Massacre link may not be as powerful as the Grrls for the points, but it's super fun to play. For friendlies I really love it.
     
  18. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    Oh great! I'll be there as well - with Bakunin though. But one of my list is basically an adaption from one of my StarCo lists.
    When it comes to the Brawler Haris I also stay away from the MSV2 mainly because I really like the HRL.
    About the two links would you mind to go a bit deeper into the matter? Like why do you come to the conclusion the Brigadas+Sr.:skull:+the Daktari were less powerful than the Grrls per their points? So far both links* feel similar in their power too me.

    *) How I usually play the Links:
    [​IMG] AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 34)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL MULTI Rifle, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
    2.5 SWC | 153 Points

    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] SEÑOR MASSACRE Breaker Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, E/M CCW. (0 | 29)
    2.5 SWC | 155 Points
     
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  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Because you're playing the Grrls offensively. They're solid that way. But leveraged defensively is where they're one of the strongest links in the game.

    Offensively you don't really need the full core: a Haris is fine. Similarly, a MB Haris of MB+Massacre (Haris)+Daktari would be epic.

    Re: the MSV2 Brawler Haris. The trick is keeping the Brawler's head down if you go second. He's a turn 1 sniper not an ARO. Have him covering a flank or your DZ against AD. Somewhere where whatever comes to kill him will be exposed to Emily or your other attack options. Leave him standing at the end of your T1 after you've killed a couple of annoying things (PH or Dasyu Snipers, Noctifiers, Spektr MSRs, TR Bots, Caterans, Sin-eaters etc are what I use him for clearing out*): kill/neutralise their Kriza (or equivalent) with Raoul or your Bandit.

    The two main AROs (in the Haris) are the Brawlers who are watching short firelanes for infiltrators and AD. While the core link provides your longer range AROs (ML and Flash Pulses from Alg FOs). Your midfield (particularly the Hardcase) is also there as a speed bump to slow down rambos: and don't discount an Al Hawwa flashpulsing on a cross table lane to slow down Dogs and similar.

    * Usually Sniper vs Sniper is a bad idea but B3 flat BS vs B1 -6 BS is excellent odds. Nothing else is as good at dealing with TO AROs in the faction.
     
    #19 inane.imp, Nov 17, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
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  20. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    @Tristan228 , basically what @inane.imp said. I use Riot Grrls to soak opponents' orders. I often lose the whole link and then manage to get 3-4 of them back up from unconscious to reform the link. That's exactly what happened vs. @HarlequinOfDeath , and in a couple games of the Interplanetario. It's even better in Limited Insertion as I almost always have Avicenna there.

    Speaking of which, for offense and utility I really love running a Spitfire/Haris/Avicenna haris alongside a core with Emily and Alguaciles. Everyone hates Emily so much that they go hard for her, often leaving the Haris operational even after an opponent alpha-strikes hard.

    With a full link, the opportunity cost of not taking Emily is high. Sure, you don't have a doc handy, but that LGL or E/M LGL solves a -lot- of problems. It's my MVP weapon in about half my games, picking off Lts, specialists, and TO units in Suppressive Fire, etc.

    As for the German Masters, great tourney, hope you had fun too! Wow, you guys have really nice tables. I saw you playing Bakunin there and was going to introduce myself but got distracted. Hope we get a game in sometime: maybe at the one in February?a

    @inane.imp , thanks for the advice. Next time I try a horde-ish list, I'll try the MSV as an active-turn piece. I've found the TR HMG too useful as an ARO piece to put down for now.

    For other things (like TO), I tend to use the everything-is-a-nail hammer that is Emily. It also tends to make opponents annoyed enough that they gun hard for her, leaving my other pieces to get work done. With Emily around I tend to miss something like a smoke-shot sniper less.
     
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