Spot for target to smoke

The rules don't specify what surface is walls and what surface is ground, it's something you'll have to come to an agreement with your opponent about. However, I think the roof on the building you link is clearly ground for nearly all of it.

 

I go by this rule of thumb for undulating/curved/diagonal surfaces: Can I place a S2 model on the surface without it tipping over or sliding off?
If yes, then fair game for smoke.
If no, find somewhere else to throw it.

 

Not a bad rule, but I'd use silhouette markers to test this instead of models who potentially can't stand on perfectly horizontal steel plate with a N51 2mm magnet holding them in place. :p

 

Way to big a limitation

Go by 3x3. Its in line with requirements for lof

 

It makes the top 3mm wide parapets/walls/obstructions legitimate targets for Smoke.

 

They're flat anyway, so legitimate targets (unless you're trying to land a grenade on a point, when I thing even the +3 range band isn't going to help you :P ).

 

Good question. We play that you can target thin walls without any real restriction.

 

The basic theory is that you can't really get LOF to anything less than 3mm X 3mm.

This is mainly to stop people throwing templates at the top of walls from below.

But equally I've never seen anyone measure the width of the wall.yo check.

 

You can't target something you don't see from below. So, unless the model is higher than a wall, you cannot target a spot at the top of the wall.

 

Well, you could, but then it becomes a speculative shot (can't see intended landing point for it) and an entire order skill, not just a short skill.

 

Yes, LOF was assumed. My point is that consensus is that you also can't target the top of the wall if it's less than 3mm X 3mm, because 3mm X 3mm is the minimum area to get LOF to.

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/47722-blast-focus-of-smoke/?do=findComment&comment=905695

Spec fire is a different issue because the issue limiting it to 3 X 3 mm is LOF.

 

I've read that old thread before posting my own answer here. What seems to be the cornerstone of the issue here is the absence of clear rules on targeting with the Targetless weapon.
I would specifically like to know how targeting a spot on the ground, which is heavily obstructed by terrain, works. Like can you are lob a grenade through a 1x1mm (game measurements) gap? The laws of optics state that light from any light source radiates equally in all directions, so even through a tiny hole in a paper sheet you would be able to see a 3x3mm spot on the ground, depending on the distance of that spot from the observer. And since the dimensions of a grenade are not established by Infinity rules, the grenade attack through a 1x1mm (or even smaller) orifice becomes totally legit. Am I right?

 

Yes. A building needs to be entirely sealed to prevent spec firing into it.

The gap only needs to be small enough that the trooper can't see 3*3mm of a horizontal surface to prevent firing normally. Use a ray model for light and pick any point on the firing trooper. Clearly it's easier to see through tiny gaps the closer the trooper is to the opening.

But discuss it with your opponent and if you can convince them of the maths / demonstrate it with the tools available go for it.*

*YMetaMV on which approach they insist on.

 

Agreed on 3x3mm. Would be good to have a clear rule on if the surface has to be totally 'flat' or not though. Good point raised :)
@ijw

 

No, thanks, I'm still too young to die :D
I really hope this won't be something someone plays against me, because it's really cheesy and is clearly an abuse of the rules. So if you see someone trying to pull this, feel free to use the pommel of your sabre to punch them in the face :P

 

im sorry whats the abuse?

 

Putting a trooper in B2B with a 1x1mm aperature and using the resulting LOF to see a 3x3mm target and throwing the smoke normally rather than spec firing it through the aperture.

For a certain set of conditions I’m sure that would be possible but I can’t be bothered to work them out. I hated optics: RF theory is far more enjoyable.

 

Horizontal = can support a figure.

Vertical = can not support a figure.

If you can’t put a figure on the roof unsupported then it’s too steep to throw a grenade onto. Use a SIL.

This gets greyer when the horizontal area is less than 25mm, but roughly parallel to the table is the rule of thumb.

 

Yeah i don't calk that abuse. Its clearly how lighy and lof works. A straight line from one side of that hole to the other is clearly going to be able to be drawn to a greater area.


Are we in the geometry denial ground again