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[Spoiler] Hopelessness of the HS lorewhise

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Ben Kenobi, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Haven’t red into the fluff book of N4 till now that I red the introduction of ITS 12.

    For me the complete story for Infinity is atm very hopeless and shattering.
    It is, like the Human Sphere(HS) dies a slow and horrible death.
    I don’t mind that the Combined Army is the stronger faction and has to win more offen, but the HS isn’t given the smallest victory that matters.
    If operation Defiance would have been a complete success or the HS forces would have had the chance to retake big areas of Paradiso. But no, the future is even looking worth without hope.
    Don’t get me wrong, I like dark fiction, but without the slightest chance for the human Kind it is very depressing and take away the fun of the scenario.
     
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  2. SpectralOwl

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    Yeah, I think the unified one-sided stomps that occur during the online campaigns whenever it looks like the CA might accomplish something should be a good indicator that at least once in a while, the players want to see the smug Shasvastii and all-according-to-keikaku EI get destroyed in a fight. It's just getting annoying now constantly seeing a cycle of "Evil Plot! Unify and Fight! Great Work! All your efforts are f*cking meaningless because someone on the writing team loves Shasvastii!".
     
  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Dunno about the physical fluff update (my experience with CB's books that have stuff from the past point a lot to copypasting, so...) but the ITS12 begs the question of what has happened to Aleph's main nodes in Concilium; while the subterranean instalations might be more safe (Taigha and Jahyt permitting), the orbitals are quite exposed.
    And considering how the ToyBox is in Earth, instead of Concilium (or so I seem to recall having read somewhere), I doubt Aleph will plant a backup facility there (too many eggs in the same system).

    Anyway I think an historical comparison of what is happening is... Rome comes with her legions, and the defending team are the local Gaul/Iberic tribes (choose your favourites). There is only one possible ending to this. And frankly, this was the writing in the wall since the beginning: an interestellar empire united in purpose against a handful of systems has only the question of *when* SHTF.

    The difference here is, first, that Space is enormous. And second, that given enough Silk (or equivalent) you can turn something like a 25mm base into a thinking person with a lhost. given that Silk is not a resource unique to Bourak (the Tohaa have its own version, and I assume the CA does too), a "starseed" project could be possible (and some of you might remember I mentioned something like that years ago); worst case scenario, Aleph could send away a node of herself with posthuman minds (dunno if those need Silk to engange a Lhost), and keep as much of humanity's essence as possible.

    Oh, and the Tohaa sponsoring Spiral have the knowledge to permanently seal a wormhole, so there is that option too...

    And yeah, I think all those extra caveats that negate any and all humanity's victories are lame and boring to read.
    Realistic, sure, but if we wanted reality, we would collect Pandemic boxes, specially the Spanish Flu expansion -.-
     
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  4. Commoner1

    Commoner1 Well-Known Member

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    Honest opinion: The actual Infinity fluff is awful and unbearably one-sided. I don't care about it anymore. It's just not fun to see your favorite factions being stomped ALL THE TIME.

    It feels like the WFB End Times where everything had to be orchestrated into one factions absolute victory, no matter what the rest of the players think.

    Infinity's metaplot is by far the weakest part the game and I abhor it.
     
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  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    I pretty much ignore the fluff, partly because I've always hated the humans vs. aliens total war focus. I got into Infinity on the promise of black ops corporate and political espionage, but the writers have never delivered.

    But yeah, when I read the ITS12 intro I was like, humanity on the brink of destruction? Wasn't that the premise of ITS11? Or was that ITS10? Or maybe Daedalus Fall? Or... all of them?

    I figure, CB are fantastic game designers and sculptors. It would be too much to ask that they also be good writers.

    I wish they had the budget to hire a good writer, though. I'd be willing to see higher prices on the minis if it paid for decent writing. I'd pay double for every mini if they hired Lois McMaster Bujold.
     
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  6. Commoner1

    Commoner1 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly the same for me. I don't care about yet another alien invasion scenario. I want to see more conflicts between human factions. This decade-long MacGuffin-hunting by the EI is just stupid.
     
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  7. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I have to agree that the war with the CA representing an existential threat to humanity is the weakest part of the Infinity background. It makes every internal fight just one more nail in the coffin, which just isn’t fun.

    In the N4 fluff book I actually liked the move to Concillium because it seemed to be readjusting the balance of power. Closing off the Paradiso gate effectively halted and contained that war. And while the threat to O-12 and Aleph on Concillium was great, the fact that a beacon had to hold the artificial wormhole open meant humanity had a chance to win a decisive victory. Seeing that reversed in the ITS 12 intro is disappointing.
     
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  8. Iver

    Iver Human Plus

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    Local narratives are fun. My friends and I played the RPG and has some house lore around companies in the Edge screwing with eachother and factions sending teams to influence them for monetary gains and such.

    But yeah, more McGuffin plots and looming overpowered alien threats aren't massively engaging storyhooks.
     
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  9. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    Humanity is losing and CA seems to reach and conquer Earth? Perfect.

    Lets end Infinity (in terms of lore) and let CB start to develope the Fantasy skirmish game. If there arent surprises, only one wave of sectorials are missing, so...
     
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  10. AssaultUnicorn

    AssaultUnicorn KTS is the best unit

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    Wait until the lore of that game becomes "A great threat of darkspawn is looming over the human kingdom of blah".

    Jokes aside, I think if the general narrative of Infinity could lean more into what the "Outrage" manga did, I think we would've been in a better place.
     
  11. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    The problem is that it’s a covert ops game with a total war narrative.
     
  12. SpectralOwl

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    It could even do that reasonably well, if the lore provided actual reasons to run covert missions against the Combined Army. As is they just spook around the background, always on the offensive with no exploitable weakness. The Tohaa are in the same boat about always being on the offensive, but with even less relevance.
     
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  13. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Bostria mentioned Battlestar Galactica as a point of comparison in one of pre-N4 interviews so...
    While I liked that show (up until last season, just like most people :D) and episode-to-episode tension of desperate survival, I am not a big fan of other wargames imitating continuing hopelessness and "hard men making harder decisions" of the example that You-Know-What-Wargaming-Brand sets for competitors as a default.

    thousand times this
     
  14. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    It isn’t that it’s a “total war” narrative, but that all of the narrative developments (and the online campaigns) focus on military fronts, while the game encounters are covert ops missions.

    If they were writing in the scope of the game mechanics, the scenarios should be presented as a collection of inter-faction in-fighting and attempts at gaining ground (the plot outline for the first two Operation: Weather System boxes and Dire Foes boxes, if I remember right...) mixed with some CA and Tohaa encounters. All of the stuff happening in Paradiso or with the jump gates ranks up there with existential threats like global warming and the Cold War—it’s nice background material but isn’t going to do much to game play other than being used as an explanation for changes to the missions between “seasons”.
     
    #14 solkan, Nov 27, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
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  15. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Get your crap together, humies.
     
  16. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Day in, Day Out. Day in, Day out. Day in, DAY OUT

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    EI to Humanity: Get on my level, bruh. :P

    If, due to the vagaries of worm-holes between EI space and the Human Sphere preventing mass transit of spacecraft, the EI were essentially raiders, reivers, vikings, now and again slipping a few ships into the Human Sphere to try and establish hidden bases-- or even to establish temporary bases-- from which to strike in search of the Tzechi Digester; This would work fine with a black op/covert ops narrative. Especially considering the EI could readily recruit humans to fight for it. I'm sure they could hire plenty of Nomads mercs to betray Humanity. And that sort of a faction would be quite interesting to play too, IMO.

    Right now, things are set up for a Deus ex machina sort of finish. And those are universally unsatisfying. Or the end of an independent Human Sphere.
     
  17. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    "For me the complete story for WW2 is atm very hopeless and shattering.
    It's like the Soviet Union (USSR) dies a slow and horrible death.
    I don’t mind that the Axis is the stronger faction and has to win more often, but the Allies aren’t given the smallest victory that matters.
    If Dieppe raid would have been a complete success or the USSR forces would have had the chance to retake big areas of Ukraine. But no, 1943 is even looking worth without hope."

    That's how I hope the situation will develop - with EI overextending its forces and losing momentum to the point where a succesful counterattack is possible.
    Deus ex machina version does seem to be more likely though.
     
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  18. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    What you seem to fail to grasp is that you cannot directly compare Infinity Factions to WW2 Factios.
    Just comparing the sizes and populations "Evolved Intelligence vs Human Sphere" could be something like "China vs Monaco", there are several orders of magnitude of difference.
     
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  19. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    And given that disparity, a deus ex machina is the only way humanity survives intact. Indeed, the ideas of the Artilect and Digesters are strong indicators that’s what will happen, if humanity is victorious.
     
  20. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Day in, Day Out. Day in, Day out. Day in, DAY OUT

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    Of course Humanity wins. Some human, a Nomad with the 133t h4xx0r skills, and who looks suspiciously like Jeff Goldblum, will upload a virus into the EI and reduce its intelligence to that of your average tree stump.

    In N5 the Ur Rationalists will have built yet another EI and be right back. La plus can change...
     
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