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Special Dodge with Smoke Grenade Launcher

Discussion in 'Rules' started by mindbl4ster, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:32 AM.

  1. mindbl4ster

    mindbl4ster New Member

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    hi there,

    as i am farly new to infinity this topic raises some questions i hope you can answer:

    when a trooper with light smoke gl is selected as target of a bs attack how does he "special dodge" for his ARO?
    does he use his bs trait because he is using a bs weapon and if so can he get a +3 mod for firing the smoke in the appropriate rangeband and what kind of negativ mods would be applicable? or because it is still a "dodge" does he need to use his ph attribute?

    thanks for your help :)
     
  2. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    It is not a Dodge. It is a BS Attack. Always.
    You use all the relevant MODs for the attack.

    Grenade Launcher: BS roll, Range, Visual modifiers like Low Visibility if you shot through it.
    Grenade: PH roll, Range, Visual modifiers like Low Visibility if you shot through it.

    You have to ALWAYS consider these attacks as BS Attacks with a Special Dodge trait. This trait lets you evade incoming attacks (if it wasn't there, the roll would be unopposed!)
     
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  3. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Because Smoke grenade is a BS weapon, using it is a BS attack (with all the attached mod : range, full auto...)

    Because it's a throwing weapon, you use your PH attribute instead of BS

    Because it has the targetless trait, you can target something else than an enemy (a friendly, somewhere on the board...)

    Because it has the special dodge trait, it allow you to have an opposed roll with whoever shoot you has long as the smoke block the shooter LoF (with any other weapon you have to shoot the enemy shooter to get an opposed roll)
     
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  4. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor
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    The OP is talking about a Light Smoke Grenade Launcher, not Smoke Grenades. So it's still BS.
     
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  5. mindbl4ster

    mindbl4ster New Member

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    so the following examples should be played right as follows:
    a celestial guard with smoke launcher gets shot at by a squalos hmg. both are in partial cover and more than 16" apart.
    so the celestial guard gets one roll on a 11 +3 (optimal rangeband for gl) to dodge the incoming attack of 4 hmg shots hitting on 15 (+3 range -3 p.cover)?
    instead of a celestial guard a shaolin monk with a smoke nade gets shot at, the monk would use his ph attribute instead plus a +3 mod because of the optimal rangeband?
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor
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  7. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Also, you got opposed roll only if the smoke is blocking the squalo LOF.

    Nothing forbid you to send your smoke somewhere it doesn't block LoF, but then it will be a normal roll on both side, without any interaction.

    One possible use of doing that is to use a cheap warband to provide smoke cover to a MSV 2 trooper (example : morlock sacrifice himself to ARO-smoke my intruder sniper)
     
  8. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    Yea, and remember that it is a BS attack, which is an ARO, so you can declare it anytime you get an ARO.

    Because of Targetless, you can target a point on the table instead of the model that generated the ARO, so if an enemy model moves into your LoF, or activates in your ZoC, etc. throw/shoot that smoke if you want to.

    This makes a smoke/MSV 2 combo annoying to deal with, because that Jaguar (for example) can throw smoke on his Intruder buddy if your hacker in LoF puts supportware on a bot. And then Mr. Intruder has smoke cover for the rest of your Active turn.

    You might be out of pistol and chain rifle range, but he can always throw a smoke grenade.
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor
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    For completeness, every time you get an ARO from someone in Line of Fire. A Zone of control-triggered ARO doesn't allow you to throw/fire smoke.
     
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  10. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    Yea, but you’re still BS IJW ;).

    Best way to get good information is to put out bad info and get corrected.

    So you need to have LoF to the model that generated the ARO to declare BS attack as an ARO, even if you are not targeting the model. Gotcha.

    But help me understand the logic here. This is because the BS attack skill requires LoF to the target, yes?

    But the Targetless trait allows you to target a point on the table, not the trooper that generated the ARO. I assume the logic is that to declare BS attack as an ARO, I first have to have LoF to the “target” which must be the model that generated the ARO. THEN I can use the Targetless trait to target a point on the table instead of the trooper that generated the ARO.

    Is that how this works?
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor
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    No, it's because ZoC AROs are limited to those mentioned for ZoC, or those (like Jammer or Hacking) that specifically don't need LoF:

    Zone of Control and ARO
    Enemies entering or acting inside the Zone of Control of a trooper while remaining outside that figure's LoF can be reacted to, but only by using the Common Skill Change Facing or Reset, unless the trooper has a Special Skill or piece of Equipment that can be used without LoF.
     
  12. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha.

    Thanks! The core Infinity rules are really solid, but it can be hard to suss out these types of nuances.
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor
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    I've added a 'see also' link to the ARO page, but this is one of the downsides of converting a linear book to a non-linear wiki - the ZoC section comes before the main ARO section so should already have been read!