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Some questions aboute new profiles

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Ktulhuist09, Apr 12, 2022.

  1. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    Hello there.
    I find a litlle bit strange new nomads profiles.
    Lobo.PNG

    Whats the point of cc attack +3 skill? Why not just give him cc 23?

    diablo.PNG
    Why diablos have structures instead of wounds? Looks like a simple mistake, cause its look like a copy of digger:eyes:

    And looking on new morats rindak, why couldn't full auto be changed same way? BS attack -3 and we've got a more variety than just almost similar units with a different combinations of msv and memetism.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Diablos have heavy cybernetic augmentations, unlike Diggers who are wearing mining armour, there are other examples of cyborgs being so heavily modified that they have STR instead of W like the Chimera and Rindak.
     
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  3. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    That guy looks totaly not augumented:eyes: and looking exactly like diablo, but got wounds in profile
    [​IMG]
     
  4. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Sorry, I was referring to the fluff blurb for Diablos from Raveneye, they're cyborg criminals who earn their air, food, and living space (prison cell) by working as shock troops.


    The Digger is a generic profile designed for use with any company's prospector (even though the Yue Minerals one appears to be a remote presence) so the rules err more on the generic side. The Rocaworks Prospector probably does work better as a Diablo, and is similar to the artwork we've seen for Diablos too.

    Edit: I can't check until I'm home but I think the Digger entry in Raveneye describes then as miners that turned Mercenary using their miner gear, which best describes the Minescorp and Sterling Forge prospectors.
     
    #4 colbrook, Apr 12, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
  5. theomc

    theomc Well-Known Member

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    CC attack +3... well it reduces their crit range... they only crit on a 20, right? Whereas if they were CC 23 they'd crit on a 17+...?
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    No, attributes over 20 rule is based on final skill level after mods.

    Only place it currently makes a difference AFAIK is against the AC2s defense system because it ignores modifiers.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    No pretty sure it still makes them crit on 17s, maybe it's a typo and was supposed to be a -3? @HellLois ?
     
  8. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    Anyway lobos dont have antimaterial weapons to interact with ac2. So why this skill is needed is still a mystery.
     
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  9. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    It is +3 and it is not a typo, I assume it is a testing modifier? its a "budget MA" but unaffected by NBW?
     
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  10. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    At that point why not just make them CC23?

    Edit: I think we're due an FAQ update at the end of the month, and I know Ian is working on the wiki again, so maybe we'll see an explanation there.
     
  11. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
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    I think CC20 + CC Attack (+3) is an intentional design to make it cheaper or more expensive than CC23, either of which could make Lobos distinctive.

    Bostria has confirmed it in Ontabletop video that it has STR rather because it is heavily modified with cybernetic implants.

    Balance issue, I suppose. In N3 Full Auto L2 was quite an issue, so CB may have decided to nerf it.
     
  12. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure thats there is strict formula for making pointcosts,so this useless rule seems very strange, especially with the philosophy of making the game simpler and clearer)
     
  13. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
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    AFAIK, one of the main purpose of N4 was Streamlining, so yes, making the game simpler and clearer are also part of it. Examples could be simplification of special skills such as I-khol, NBW, Kinematika which are simply changed into CC Attack (-x), Nullifying the MA, or Dodge(+x'').

    But at the same time, the streamling has initiated the new era of Diversification. Simplified rules not only provide us brevity but also variety, which is shown as unprecedented kind of skills or weapons such as Dodge (+3") on Kuroshi, Burst bonuses on certain Weapons, Engineer (+3) on Parvati, etc. So I'm not sure the philosopy of N4 is jusy making the game simpler and clearer. Maybe that's for Code One I guess.

    Therefore, setting aside the drawbacks of those diversification causing power creep issues, I think it could be a way to make the game more exciting, or provocative.
     
    #13 Ugin, Apr 14, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
  14. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    It's great that we're getting differences in profiles, but all the changes before were with attributes that are used for multiple purposes. Like ph wich used for dodge, adhesive saves and determines the damage in cc. And here it makes sense, we can get units which are good in dodging, but also havent superdamadge in cc. Same with WIP, you get a bonus to a specific skill, not to the whole attribute. But cc attribute is only used for melee attacks:eyes:
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    But why? They deliberately fudge the points all the time, just look at the Gator paying the wrong points just because. Could've just made it CC23 they wanted and then the points they wanted like every other time they do that.
     
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  16. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    That's not really new. In the Dodge example you are using, the N3 rule was called Hyper-Dynamics. It was exactly the same as the current Dodge (+X) rule we have today, except less clear and required new players to look-up a rule. Similarly, +3 to Discover existed in N3. Both may have existed earlier, but I only started in N3 so cannot be certain. Most of these subtle variations we see in N4 existed in N3 in various forms, such as nested skills or levelled skills, and are simply clearer and (sometimes) more varied than before.
     
  17. Ktulhuist09

    Ktulhuist09 Well-Known Member

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    Man, main information in my message was about adding rule that just increase attribute, wich uses only in 1 check and it makes no sense. This is new and useless rule. As i wrote befor wip and ph we are using for several checks and thats cool and make difference between units:ok_hand:
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense with other stats because they have multiple uses, so you need to come up with ways to allow them to only buff single applications of the stat.

    That doesn't work with CC. It only gets used for CC attacks, which means there is no functional purpose for writing CC Attack (+3) instead of just making the stat CC 23. It just adds another rule that you have to remember instead of checking the CC stat on the model.
     
  19. Shrooms

    Shrooms Well-Known Member

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    Re Diggers - it looks like they aren’t Wildcards (for CJC) any more? Did I miss a blurb or change log, or did this just happen quietly?
     
  20. Jumara

    Jumara Well-Known Member

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    I guess it happend "quitly" but the Spiral corps players lamented through the forum because they outright lost access to diggers in favor of the beasthunter (not linkable) at the same time.
     
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