1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

[SOLVED] Minelayer and hidden deployment

Discussion in 'Solved Rule Questions' started by ChoTimberwolf, Jun 21, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    375
    If you got a TO with the skill minelayer for example Clipsos, can you deply him in Hidden deployment and still use the minelayer skill? So that you lay down a normal Camo Marker in the ZoC of the hidden TO?
     
    chromedog likes this.
  2. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,236
    Likes Received:
    1,759
  3. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    1,346
    Yes, you can. Or one of any other deployable they may be carrying in lieu of said mine.

    Once that model is revealed, ALL info about it becomes public info. Remaining mines/deployables, etc.
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  4. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    426
    However, unless you have other camo markers on the table, it should be clear to your opponent it's a mine after seeing your list.
     
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    4,424
    Nope, neither TO nor Camo troops show up in the list... He would see for example 1 camo marker and 9 troopers. He would know one is a mine if there were 2 camo markers on the table, and 9 troops on the courtesy list.
     
  6. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    375
    As Xagroth is saying and with Tohaa our Camo Marker cost as much as our TO Minelayer so even with points you can't be sure if its a mine or a Igao, as soon as my Clipsos leaves camo state I have to tell the number of mines missing when they know for sure that its a mine but if I am second turn it is useful
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    4,216
    I'm fairly certain that it's only a thing in Tohaa. With Crocman Minelayers it can't really be anything other than a mine.

    Although you could double fake: deploy a TO thing in Camo and pretend to be a mine (with a second TO or AD so it's still 9 orders).
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  8. ChoTimberwolf

    ChoTimberwolf Artichoken Friend

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    375
    I tried once and got to around 14 camo markers I can deploy in deployment phase as Tohaa. I only play Tohaa so its pretty relevant for me to understand Tohaa interactions and tricks, tournament in a few weeks :)
     
  9. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    426
    How am I mistaken? The OP said the trooper with minelayer is in Hidden Deployment.

    So I give my opponent a list with X number of regular order troopers on it. On the table there are X number of troopers + 1 camo token. I can account for every order generated and that Hidden deployment trooper is not generating an order. X =/= X+1. Meaning that camo token is not generating an order. What else can it be?
     
  10. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    1,609
    2 of your model could be Holoechoes, FWIW...
     
    ChoTimberwolf and xagroth like this.
  11. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    426
    How does that make any difference?
     
  12. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    1,609
    That your opponent DO NOT KNOW!

    Your 9 models + 1 camo can be whatever you want.
     
    xagroth and ChoTimberwolf like this.
  13. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    426
    Am I missing something? Is doesn't matter what the other troopers on the table appear to be. How do you generate an order to mask a camo token(mine) at deployment who's owner doesn't naturally generate one? All you can do is add more came tokens and play a shell game.
     
  14. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    1,609
    With the order that should be generated by the fake troopers
     
    ChoTimberwolf likes this.
  15. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    426
    And how exactly does that produce an additional order that could be mistaken for the minelayer camo token?
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,860
    Likes Received:
    7,285
    @tox once orders are generated, the game's up and a clever opponent will be able to make a count and realise it's a mine.

    @Ginrei an Igao's order doesn't show up on Courtesy list (and shouldn't, I'm looking at you, Holo2). You won't know it's a mine or Igao before your opponent is generating orders properly, meaning if you go first you have to guess or declare Discover to know.
     
    daboarder, xagroth and colbrook like this.
  17. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    1,609
    @Mahtamori @Ginrei during deployment (and first turn, if your opponent go first) there is no way to tell.
     
  18. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    426
    Any chance either of you can show some sort of example? What list is going to hide the fact that single camo token in a list, deployed by a HD minelayer, isn't a regular trooper?
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,860
    Likes Received:
    7,285
    If you have a Kotail among your 9 models + 1 Clipsos, I will see 11 models, 1 Camo and 9 orders. I'll know both that it's a mine and that you have a Kotail, not to mention I'll know what gear said Kotail is masking itself under.
    If you go second, I'll still see 11 models in the same combat group, which might not give the mine away, but it'll give the Kotail away.

    To hide the Kotail during deployment you need an additional Clipsos, Gao-Tarsos or Cube Jäger (and you'll be generating 7 orders over 7 models, two obvious echoes and a camo instead, so it'll still be obvious that we're dealing with a mine during the Tohaa active turn)

    I honestly don't know how to hide that there's a mine in play other than playing shell games with other mines or CH:camo

    EDIT: we might have a case of mixed up identities here. @tox in your narrative are you Tohaa or anti-Tohaa? Who is "opponent" in your narrative?
     
  20. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,122
    Likes Received:
    7,301
    Because you don't know how many regular orders your opponent has until the order count phase of their first turn.

    If I'm going second and I deploy 7 models and a camo token, you don't know whether I'm generating 7 or 8 orders until the start of my turn, if I'm going second then you have to play your first turn without that information.
     
    Ginrei likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.