1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

[SOLVED] Mine AROs Overlapping with Movement Declarations?

Discussion in 'Solved Rule Questions' started by fenren, Oct 29, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,239
    Likes Received:
    10,636
    As per the Idle rules, yes:
    • The trooper is also considered to perform an Idle when he has declared a Skill not allowed by the rules. In such situation, the ammunition of Disposable weapons or pieces of Equipment is spent, too.
     
    Xeurian likes this.
  2. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    928
    If the mine marker is placed after short skills and ARO's, how could the location be blocked, couldn't I just then put it in another empty spot?
     
  3. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,239
    Likes Received:
    10,636
    No, because you have to say where it's being placed when you declare the Skill.
     
    fenren and Nemo No Name like this.
  4. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
    CB Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    1,958
    yep!

    If the Player declares a Skill and, when he applies its Effects, he realizes the Requirements are not met, then the Skill is considered null. However, the trooper who declared it still generates ARO, as if he has declared an Idle, and loses the ammunition or equipment used, if he declared the use of a Disposable weapon or piece of Equipment.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Order_Expenditure_Sequence
    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Idle
     
    ev0k, fenren, Xeurian and 3 others like this.
  5. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    270
    But on the other hand, the Mine is placed during the same time, and not at the end of the order, which would be when the desired movements trails are indicated on the table. So the movement has no physical location to be drawn!
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    6,294
    Likes Received:
    7,853
    You can argue that one back and forth, as we've done in this thread, but the rule does explicitly state that the mine isn't considered deployed until the end of the order.
     
    fenren likes this.
  7. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,402
    Likes Received:
    1,328
    So, if I understand what was written here correctly, whenever someone ARO by placing a mine, I just need to move in the spot where he choose to put his mine (fully or only partially) to cancel it and change his ARO to idle ?
     
  8. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    513
    Yes. And on the next order you can Shoot first skill, and then move to where he declared his mine ARO.

    Or you can place a mine where he placed a mine, and both skill will simultaneously cancel (i guess).

    edit to add: in the long run, it will change Mine from a defensive weapon used as last-ditch effort when you know you'll die to an offensive weapon (place it around a corner then move+shoot on the enemy). Still useful as a defensive weapon if you place it during your active turn, but not as a last ditch reaction. Also just as useful as before when you place it in ARO while the enemy is more than 4" away. But that requires to better calculate your placement of your skirmisher when you ended the turn.
     
    #48 Robock, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  9. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,298
    Likes Received:
    2,600
    To summarize this again, what exactly is @Hellois saying?

    1.
    A Move after 'Deploy Mine ARO' declaration can always be used to cancel a Mine by walking into it and turns the ARO into Idle.

    That seems rather.... exploitable. I'd file that under Gotcha moments. But hey dem rules are dem rules.
     
    Lesh', BLOODGOD and fenren like this.
  10. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    572
    While very mechanical it does nerf mines a bit. And those are predominant in the midfield right now. No idea yet if that is good or bad.
     
    fenren likes this.
  11. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,222
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    ... at least until the powers that be decide which it is, as they have done in this thread :).
     
    Robock likes this.
  12. fenren

    fenren Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    35
    @HellLois Thank you for the final clarifying answer. I really appreciate the active engagement to get official rules answers out to the community.

    To those who joined in the discussion: I think this significantly lowers the value of midfield mine-layers on dense tables. For me, it will result in fielding them less often and changes how I play them. But at least we know now, and that's good enough for me!
     
    #52 fenren, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    HellLois and Robock like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.