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[SOLVED] Immobilised and G:servant/Synch.

Discussion in 'Solved Rule Questions' started by Gwaernydd, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Then people shouldn't act like there WAS an official clarification on the topic. That's misleading, at best.

    Also there's this: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/can-an-engineer-repair-themselves.20233/#post-78277
     
    Wolf likes this.
  2. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    I’m sorry to say that I think you’re right. I find the attitude depressing and the decision (to leave difficulties or misunderstandings unresolved) uncharacteristically conceited.

    (I hope the people who always give me shit about my supposed fanboy status are taking note! @Andre82 et al :smile:)
     
  3. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    @psychoticstorm Again, please get him to stop the digs and the having a go at other posters.
     
  4. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    Based on my observations he's only behaving in much the same fashion various members of the community have deemed acceptable towards him in the first place. Maybe everyone needs to chill out.
     
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  5. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Ok, let me spell this out for those apparently unfamilar with this sort of grown-up communication; it’s called ‘a joke’
    and it’s once again aimed at a forum member with whom I’ve previously shared such jokes; the butt of the humour is once again myself....

    Here’s how it works. The context is that Andre82 has indeed repeatedly (and good humouredly) mocked me for supporting CB (in fact for defending their right to define the rules for their own game - the temerity of those darned Spaniards!).

    Thus, having unusually said something very critical of the company, it makes complete sense for me to make a joke about that at my own expense. And given how damning the remark was, it follows that I might want to lighten the tone.

    However, and just as last time, it would appear that self-deprecating humour is too subtle, and that the idea of people sharing such humor is unwelcome in the forum - at least in the view of one outstanding member.
     
  6. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    I don’t think that’s fair, MacFergusson. I’ve been funnier by far! :grin:
     
  7. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    I still want to argue with you about it but I am not sure how... I am so confused right now.

    As far as arguments go Wolf is handling this one pretty well. He is making a point in a good natured way that directly addresses a criticism I have made fun of him for before. Now if I called him a CB shill I would look like an asshole... I mean I am still going to do it because I am an asshole but you get my point.

    Now on to his point. I don't think CB has a very big staff or all that many playtesters and fast/sloppy FAQ's can make more issues then they solve so doing it correctly is extremely important. I am doubtful we will see anything tell at least June. I will be pretty upset if we have to wait tell N4 but also not surprised.
     
  8. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
    Moderator

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    We will try to make sure the misunderstandings of rules to be resolved.
     
    m2cat, xagroth, macfergusson and 2 others like this.
  9. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Well, probably because we’re in agreement for a change, Andre; and which was the whole point!

    The usual battle lines get drawn because I’ve often pointed out that Infinity’s rules belong to its designers - not us; and that CB can make those rules anything they like - whether or not we happen to like their decisions. I’ve also pointed out that people getting upset enough about a rule they don’t like will not magically transform it into whatever they think it should be, or fervently believe it already is.

    And the point here is not those apparently challenging observations, but one that probably many of us could agree with - if people would kindly get the fuck over their fond beliefs about who I am or what I stand for. What I stand for is this: clearly understanding Corvus Belli’s rules, and then clearly distinguishing them from any changes we make in our games, clubs and tournaments which we are all welcome to do!

    To be continued …
     
  10. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Hence the remark I made above was after a week of watching a group of highly intelligent and knowledgable people - who must care enough about the game to make it a part of their daily lives here on these forums, arguing badly with one another about something that apparently can’t be resolved because CB won’t say anything about it!

    The question they’re arguing about doesn’t seem a hard question to answer to me, but apparently it’s an outstanding and unresolved situation. Thus, I wanted to say I think it’s shameful that CB should allow their most loyal and invested supporters to fall to arguing like this for the sake of an hour of their time.

    That is the point I was making, and which was apparently misunderstood. Let me make it clearer still:

    @Corvus Belli - please put an ongoing process in place to address any ambiguities or misunderstandings in the rules and publish them clearly in a way that is clear and unequivocal.
     
  11. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Fed up of all of this, I've made my proposal for how Corvus Belli could make a start on resolving all of this here.
    Oracle for Infinity
     
  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    N2 was actually just the N1 rules with all the FAQs for the first 3 years rolled into the printing. I had the 'entire paragraph changes' printout at one point, it was only like 24 pages. The "just the changes" printout was ~4 pages, IIRC (it's been a while). There were very few outright rules changes.

    Now, with N3, the underlying theory of the game changed from "max realism at the expense of complex gameplay" to "simplified gameplay over realism".


    That would be IJW's post. That's as official as it gets until the wiki gets updated (also by IJW, but at CB's instructions). IJW really needs to be getting something more than his name in the books from CB, he does a lot of work for them.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  13. gamma ray

    gamma ray Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    He does, he gets paid.
     
  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Good!
     
  15. Shango

    Shango Well-Known Member

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    I do not think we need to wait for an official answer: The rules are enough clear :
    What the Wiki says about G: Servant:
    • G: Servant troopers don't provide Orders to the Order Pool, and cannot receive Orders from their Order Pool.
    • However, they are always activated by the same Order as their Doctor (any Level) or Engineer.
    So it is the engineer who spends an order and who declares his actions.

    What the Wiki says about Imm-1:
    • Troopers in the Immobilized-1 state cannot declare Short Movement Skills other than Discover.
    • Troopers in this state cannot declare Attacks nor any Short Skills other than Reset, Regeneration, Sensor, AutoMediKit, or those that state so explicitly in their description.
    • Immobilized troopers cannot declare Entire Order Skills.
    • Automatic Special Skills and Automatic Equipment continue to work, but the trooper must still respect all declaration restrictions.
    • Troopers in the Immobilized-1 state continue to generate Orders for their Order Pool.
    So the engineer cannot declares Engineer(SHORT SKILL) So the servant can not execute it!
    I have the impression that the rules are quite explicit...
     
  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The rules are not as explicit as you think, since the problem is that the Spanish version uses "Realizar" (execute) instead of "Declare".

    So you see:
    In Spanish YOU CAN.
    In English YOU CANNOT.
     
  17. Shango

    Shango Well-Known Member

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    Spanish engineers can voluntarily declare actions that they can not execute? These guys are tricky.
    Of the blows is just as simple for the rules: you speak Spanish you can, you speak not you can not... players will quickly understand their interests and CB will not even have to edit an English version for N4. :v:
     
  18. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Of course, this debate was of interest to me, so I'm keeping an eye on it.

    Shango has a point here that I didn't bother following up earlier, but since we're still going ... :smile: Can you give us more information about the words CB use in Spanish so that we can properly understand your argument @xagroth? Can you give concrete examples of how 'realizar'/execute are used in contrast to [spanish word for]/declare please?
     
  19. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    I gotta say, as someone who doesn't fancy himself to win many games in England OR Spain, if it's clear that you can do it in Spanish but that you can do it in English then we do at least have locale-based solution. You can play the tactic in Spanish-speaking countries, and not in English speaking countries. :smile: And if I AM in Spain, and that rare situation comes up, I could just ask my opponent if I could do it, right?
     
  20. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Realizar is a tricky word, like many in spanish, in that it can be used for different stuff. The official language organization for spanish (RAE, Real Academia de la Lengua) gives us 4 meanings:

    So, examples:
    1. El programa realizó la tarea sin problemas - The program executed the task without problems
    2. Steven Spielberg dirigió Una Nueva Esperanza - Steven Spielberg directed A New Hope
    3. La tienda que cierra tiene ofertas en miniaturas de Infinity - The soon-to-close shop has a sale on Infinity models
    4. Lex Luthor cumplió su sueño de derrotar a Superman - Lex Luthor achieved his dream of defeating Superman

    As you can see, 4 wildly different meanings for the same word, none related to "declare" as a concept, but implying some sort of action... There is also Realize, which has about 6-7 meanings and only two imply action, while the rest imply knoweldge (grosso modo)...

    Consider, however, that IJW has said before that he got the same texts for the wiki that went to the rulebooks, and some difference in stuff pointed to extra changes on the Spanish version (either he received a modified version that was not modified in Spanish, or the Spanish version was modified and he got the "beta" so to speak). It was something about Command Tokens, I think, but it was not a difference in translation, but different rules (again I think, it was from before November, maybe :S)