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So why is O12 apparently quite unpopular?

Discussion in 'O-12' started by Time Bandit, Mar 21, 2022.

  1. infyrana

    infyrana Well-Known Member

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    They're not for me, I think the colour scheme is the initial aspect that puts me off - so much trim on each model and all painted in gold, not really a practical thing. Then you have Admiral Akimbo (Bluecoats) who look like they've stepped off of some sci-fi battleship Anime, then there's Chappie the Betatrooper, and that obvious Judge Dredd vibe (but without the fat wheeled bikes to make it work).

    Having said all that, there are some excellent models like Sirius, Razor and the Bronze. A few tweaks to smooth down and blend in that excessive trim and they would make fine additions :)
     
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You're projecting something onto O-12 which isn't represented in the fluff.
     
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  3. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

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    This OP raises a good question, and a lot of the answers given so far are correct in their own way. I would add my own take, which is that the 012 playstyle and list-building experience is very bland.

    I played them for a few months after they first came out, and was never excited by any of the gameplay possibilities that they provided.

    Then when you look at other factions, it's possible to build your list around things that feel a bit more thematic, more distinct, more strategically thought-provoking. Here are a few examples, but it isn't limited to these:

    JSA - out-positioning your opponent with a lot of fragile but hard-hitting infiltrators and generally riding the excitement of trying to assassinate key targets with superior infiltrators (and this is just ONE valid take on JSA, there are others that you can dive into with your model collection)
    Shasvatii - fielding a shell-game of mass camo markers, side-stepping all the enemy hacking gimmicks and always keeping your opponent guessing.... OR.... bulldozing the field with fully linked Sheshkiin, Sphinx, etc
    PanOceania - Joan and a lot of mercenaries, or even Joan and a couple of TAGs, bullying your opponent with co-ordinated orders and powerful BS attacks.

    With 012 it's just a matter of making sure that the reasonably optimized profiles make it into your all-rounders list and seeing if you can get through a game without making too many errors. There's very little capacity for out-preparing your opponent. And despite some good units, they aren't anywhere near the S-Tier vanilla factions because they lack the 10-15 outrageously undercosted units that most Vanilla factions exclusively run.
     
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  4. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 "It's a bug in the document"

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    Maybe try reading the fluff? Other people other than myself have mentioned things in the fluff that definitely don't portray O-12 in a good light.
    So keep ignoring them and the actual fluff and disregard the call to agree to disagree.
    I personally don't think powerful, over reaching, bloated government bureaucracies with little to no oversight that engineers conflict between superpowers is ever a good thing. You do. That's cool.
     
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  5. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 "It's a bug in the document"

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    Let's all go read the fluff of kappas together...
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  6. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    “Lawkeeper Simone Anderton, badge number: LW-10124. Preliminary mission report. I’m standing before the target’s location. The suspects are all armed and, most likely, they’re going to react in a violent and hostile way. As usual, I am on my own and without backup in the middle of nowhere. Under these circumstances, arresting and transporting the suspects is clearly impossible. Therefore, I intend to kill every single one of them in there.”
     
  7. Vaulsc

    Vaulsc Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Simone Anderton is investigating a group of the EI's alien contact force operatives for using weapons that were against the concillium convention that the EI never agreed to in the first place :)
     
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  8. Alfy

    Alfy Well-Known Member

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    All factions are presented from their point of view. O-12 sees itself just like you described. Just like Pan-O sees itself as the most beneficial model for the future of humanity, Yu Jing sees itself as the rightful leader of mankind, Nomads as the last libertarians, etc.

    But these are also a theocracy that uses its best tech to push faith, a dictatorial empire that crushes its minorities, a bunch of dangerous anarchists...

    There is not one faction in Infinity that can actually be seen as "the good guys" unless you buy in their ethos, and the same goes for O-12.
     
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  9. SpectralOwl

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    For me, it's that I already have PanO, and am downright insulted every time I see a side-by-side comparison of most of the units. I know CB use Army lists and sales data to make game design decisions, we saw that in Uprising, so I'm just voting with my wallet that I'd prefer them to spend a bit of time fixing up off-balance older factions rather than only ever pushing full release waves. I also practically never use Characters or Mercs for the same reason.

    I'm also not keen on most of the LI and HI armour aesthetics for the faction. Their MI is gorgeous though.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    @Fed4ykin nailed it as far as I'm concerned. The initial release of O-12 was good, I like the initial profiles with the balance of abilities they strike and was looking forward to sectorial expanding on that similar to what was done with Aleph, but what Starmada became was more like the uninspired 3rd sectorial that just reiterated on known profiles and borrowed from other factions to fill gaps.
    At some point I'll pick O-12 back up again and assemble and paint my Zeta
     
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  11. bladerunner_35

    bladerunner_35 Well-Known Member

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    That case is still under investigation and regardless Bureau Aegis cannot comment on individual cases.

    Should any crime have been commited we want everyone to be clear that the Bureau will persecute the responsible to the fullest extent of the law.

    In the future we ask that you direct your questions to our public image officers.

    Have a nice day, citizen.
     
  12. Lady Numiria

    Lady Numiria Cyberius TaskForce

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    In my meta there is a lot of O-12 players since the beginning (I also almost only play them since they released).

    I mean, like SpectralOwl just said, they are just the better PanO... so I sticked with them in the end, only going back to PanO to play the finally more appealing and interesting MO. I'm just sad N4 even emphazed their playstyle to just "Better PanO", I miss glue-guns and hacking game.

    True also that Starmada is just bland trash. they released it too sooner with not enough brainstorming and feedback from vanilla (and only good ideas were butchered and badly done, like restricting Casanova to Starmada - why only him?? why not all the other Aleph dudes that change the game for vanilla?)
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nah. CA and Yu Jing are most often presented from the point of view of other factions.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It wouldn't be, but that's not how O-12 is portrayed (except as "powerful"). It's portrayed as righteous, efficient, and responsible. I'd agree with you if O-12 was actually portrayed that way.
     
  15. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    To me O12 needed to be a faction with only weapons allowed by the concilium (the list could have been revised), but with incredible profiles and tech to compensate. And also some way to punish enemy profiles using forbidden weapons.
    So basically excellent profiles with modest guns and a way to punish/mitigate powerful guns against them in some cases.

    Infinity is in dire need to rework factions to be radically different between each other with the existing tools and for me that was the way to do so for O12.
     
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  16. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Only because it's true.
     
  17. Time Bandit

    Time Bandit Vulnerability (Total)

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    Starmada can now link Epsilons. Big News.
     
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  18. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Also Bronzes are Wildcards, and Kappas/Bluecoats/Raveneyes/Cho are Pure *and* can form a Haris.
     
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  19. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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    I think it's been a combination of lots of the things people have been saying.

    The timing of the release into a the pandemic and a lukewarm received 4th edition did a lot to dull the buzz and momentum.



    I really like O-12 and have played them quite a bit, but I'm extremely hit and miss with the faction's aesthetic and rule design.

    I think they needed to make the a more clear distinction on the 'space cops' thing. Because the armed bureaus of O-12 are still pretty distinct.

    Starmada is this ugly amalgam of all of these disparate parts that would have been much better developed in their more focused arenas.

    There are the literal 'Space Police/Interpol' units focus much more on counter terrorism, investigation, and crime fighting.

    And then there are the actual military units that conduct international/interplanetary military policing, conflict intervention, and peace keeping.

    I would have kept those two elements much more seperate and in two distinct sectorals. With only a few overlapping support units.

    Aleph and O-12 are fairly intertwined, and the occasional shared unit/character would be alright.
    If there was a third sectoral. You could possibly do a much more heavily intermixed Aleph+O-12 force.




    Visually I'm really love hate with O-12. There are several units that just look awful, (Nyokas) and a just as many that look outstanding. Though cruelly many of the units that are among my favorite visual designs, end up having hideous/wasteful poses/gear. (Blue Coats, Crushers, Cyberghost)

    Locking a large number of their best vanilla units in Defiance wasn't winning any love.

    Zeta is still in a weird place for me too. It is an alright TAG but underwhelming for the hype around it.



    Many of my favorite units, Lynx, Omega, Gamma are all vanilla so I tend to play that more.

    Starmada is very underwhelming and it's weakness at engaging long range is crippling in many games.

    I think it has improved quite a bit with this update, and will try and give both Starmada and O-12 a few games to really feel out what's changed. I'm really looking forward to bringing the Epsilon along in a core or haris
     
    #39 Kreslack, Mar 28, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
  20. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    I can’t say much about gameplay. I am more involved in story, design of miniatures and such things.
    They are looking like usual. Their design of come units looks the same with some factions.
    I am not talking about Starmada... there are lots of units from other places, and sectorial really looks like NA2.

    Team Sirius and some robots were good. At my taste of course.

    I admit, that they definitely have a place to be. Some people are playing them in out town.
    One person for sure, but it is a big deal for a town)

    So, they are like Soldier 76 for me. Something, but nothing special.
    For now it feels this way.
     
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