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So - We Need To Talk About Tā Moko - Before Varuna

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by AdmiralJCJF, Aug 14, 2018.

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  1. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    So, before Varuna hits I think it's important to have a conversation about the cultural significance of Tā Moko to Māori culture, and highlight how what we might do, called Kirituhi, is different from Tā Moko.

    If you want to do some reading in detail I suggest the following:

    https://www.tepapa.govt.nz/discover-collections/read-watch-play/maori/ta-moko-maori-tattoos-history
    http://www.zealandtattoo.co.nz/tattoo-styles/maori-tattoo/
    https://teara.govt.nz/en/ta-moko-maori-tattooing

    Let's start by examining the difference between the full facial Moko which is worn by Māori men, and the chin Moko which is worn by Māori women:

    [​IMG]

    This is cartooney, obviously, but serves the point well.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a selection of "chin Moko" for women, real patterns which are used and could be emulated.

    While the following is a good outline for a full facial Moko:

    [​IMG]

    And in terms of the shoulder and arm:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So, here's the thing.

    These kinds of tatoo designs are culturally significant for Māori, and if you are going to use them then you should do so conscious of that cultural significance and with some respect for it.

    This shouldn't discourage anyone, I don't know of any Māori community who don't welcome respectful engagement with their cultural heritage. I'm sure they would love to see reflections of their heritage projected into the future.

    http://www.tarynberi.com/blog/2015/4/10/the-difference-between-kirituhi-and-moko

    A moko can only be done by a Māori for a Māori. No respected Tā Moko artist (called Tohunga Tā Moko) would do one on a non-Māori, since it is strictly reserved for people with Māori whakapapa (genealogy). Māori-style tattoos, on the other hand, are considered a different art form and are referred to as Kirituhi. These can also be done by non-Māori artists for non-Māori wearers, and many Māori artists are happy to share their art this way in a respectful manner.

    Part of this would be to get a little more understanding of the meaning behind the designs:

    http://www.tuarangi.com/meaning-of-maori-symbols-and-designs/

    ___________________________________________________________________________________

    So this is intended as a conversation starter, rather than a warning or anything else.

    It's an opportunity for people to discuss the appropriate use of cultural material in our future-gaming.

    But, obviously, it's also important to approach the topic of Māori designs on our models (especially "Croc Men" and especially in Varuna).
     
    #1 AdmiralJCJF, Aug 14, 2018
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  2. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    This is actually one of the reasons I was hoping for helmeted heads and full wetsuits again for the Croc Men--or at least a possible expansion of the Croc Man concept to be more than 'just' Maori for the ethnic make-up of the unit--maybe the original Croc Men unit was made up of Maori, and since then they've worked Maori designs into the armor.

    No joy on that end, but I think it would have been an interesting touch.
     
    #2 kanluwen, Aug 14, 2018
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  3. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    That’s exactly their story... the original all Polynesian Division was destroyed at Ravensbrucke, and the Croc Men recruit from all groups, while keeping the distinctive tattoos as a mark of respect for their fallen.
     
    #3 A Mão Esquerda, Aug 14, 2018
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  4. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Hadn't read their fluff in awhile so forgot that part, but still. Would have been cooler to see it as an armor feature rather than actually still being tattoos and the like.
     
    #4 kanluwen, Aug 14, 2018
  5. Mikes

    Mikes Well-Known Member

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    Great post, thanks.
     
    #5 Mikes, Aug 14, 2018
  6. Magonus

    Magonus Well-Known Member

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    Why use that, when we can plumb the cultural wonders and deep traditions of "Echo Bravos" and "Cobra Zulus."
     
    #6 Magonus, Aug 14, 2018
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  7. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Well, if nothing else, soldiers of Māori heritage are probably pretty common in the PanOceanian military.

    So it's a good place to talk about tribal tattoos and other culturally significant elements in our mini design and/or painting.
     
    #7 AdmiralJCJF, Aug 14, 2018
  8. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    I’m confused, what discussion are you looking to have?

    Thanks for the write up! If I ever get around to painting my crocmen I’ll definitely use the info you have here as a guide because it seems like a good starting point or crash course for easy reference.
     
    #8 Judge Dredd, Aug 14, 2018
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  9. chromedog

    chromedog Less than significant minion

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    I'm part gypsy. We don't HAVE any culture save what has been appropriated from other cultures (often with the assistance of a pry-bar).
    (ALL of their myths and folklore has been looted from elsewhere and they aren't shy of looting superstitions from other cultures, either).
     
    #9 chromedog, Aug 14, 2018
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  10. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Hey, if you do the reading then you're doing great!

    But I'm open to chatting with anyone who would rather do that instead.
     
    #10 AdmiralJCJF, Aug 14, 2018
  11. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    That's how cultures interact with each other. Plus the killing and fucking everything that doesn't run away.
     
    #11 Zsolt, Aug 14, 2018
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  12. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    Very precious few cultures don’t “steal” from one another. Even within culture there is theft. I studied and played jazz for some time and it’s rife with players ripping each other off in some form or fashion. Star Wars has shot for shot remakes of old films and shorts. Romans whole heartedly stole their pantheon from the Greeks. This is not to mention all of the culture that gets exported from various civilizations.
     
    #12 Judge Dredd, Aug 14, 2018
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  13. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    <looks at title>
    Why we need to speak about some Yu-Jing?
    <read the OP>
    Aaaaaaaaa.... that's why!
     
    #13 eciu, Aug 14, 2018
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  14. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    lol, I thought the same thing.
     
    #14 Death, Aug 14, 2018
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  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    It's not like we'll butcher the Maori culture on purpose....
    ... pulling off that kind freehand simply puts you in front of a different problem than political correctness.
    Perfectionist Painter's PTSD is a thing and all that.
    * sobs in failed artist *
     
    #15 Teslarod, Aug 14, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    It's a pretty similar topic to Native American war bonnets being used by everyone and his dog. From what I know it's one of the sore points for them, too.

    Great topic, @AdmiralJCJF. One of the practical applications I can see is (trying to) paint those troops with Maori ancestry using Ta Moko designs, while using Kirituhi for other, non-Maori troopers. I really like this kind of minor details incorporated into army desing.
     
    #16 Stiopa, Aug 14, 2018
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  17. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    #17 eciu, Aug 14, 2018
  18. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    #18 barakiel, Aug 14, 2018
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  19. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    I am glad you asked!
    So, so, sooo many questions...

    ...I'll settle for this: Was this the result of a meticulous google search or prior knowledge?
     
    #19 Teslarod, Aug 14, 2018
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  20. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Teslarod
    Damn fine questions.

    The Cobra Zulu I knew about, just because the Cobra's a very iconic American helicopter (much like the Apache helicopter.) The Cobra Zulu is a variant of it, and I was reminded of it the other day in a chat with @Make PanO Great Again :P. As he intelligently pointed out, it may bode well for us that the Cobra Zulu is named for an aggressive fast attack helicopter. Hopefully some of that fast forward play will translate over to the Infinity unit.

    Echo and Bravo were new information for me though... I simply searched the term "Echo Bravo airborne" and stumbled on that. I learn new things all the time. Given how many CB staff have families, I assume there's a certain amount of Pixar film viewing that happens :D

    Unfortunately for my opponents, I now know the voiceactors for Echo and Bravo were also in a certain iconic fighter pilot film from the 1980s.

    This is the story of why I will now quote Top Gun every time my Echo Bravo hits the table.

    "Thats right, Tohaa. I am dangerous."

    "Look, dice. If you crew up just this much, I'll have you flying a cargo plane full of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong."
     
    #20 barakiel, Aug 14, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
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