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So, let's talk about that Morat Update...

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by DaRedOne, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Okay, I'm really, really sorry, but this is not a good update. The first thing that must be said is that, in a vaccuum, it's good. But this game is not a vacuum, there are other factions in it, and other armies, and other playstyles and so on.

    Right now, some players consider MAF to be the weakest faction in the game. I do not agree with them, but I do understand where that feeling comes from. MAF has several inherent weaknesses:

    - Slightly higher than average cost for the models;
    - Mediocre statlines on most models;
    - No access to marker state on any models;
    - Poor ARO options out of fireteams;

    As for strengths of the army:

    - Variety of fireteams;
    - Mostly veteran models allow to play aggressively with lieutenants;

    Yeah, the first impression is already not very good. However, there is a lot to this update that could have mitigated one of the above issues, while giving us more of the second strength, perhaps enough of it to offset the other three weaknesses and push the army up the ladder slightly.

    The problem is we got none of that.

    There are three new profiles that are begging to have a lieutenant option in this update: The FA Sogarat, the Tactical Sense Suryat and the Sensor Oznat. Either of them having a lieutenant option would allow us to really play aggressively with out LT, and thus enjoy the fact we can do that more easily than the other armies out there. This would really push the fact morats are mostly veterans and thus weigh our few strengths harder against the oponents.

    The problem is we got none of that.

    This update was also a chance to review the cost of some units, namely vanguards but yaogats and sogarats would benefit from having their points cost reviewed. These units pay a little too much for what they bring to the table, especially when compared to similar models within Combined Army itself! Vanguards are probably the biggest point of contention here, as they cost 14 points base for a profile that would cost 11 points if they lacked the morat rule. That is obscenely expensive for a line troop.

    And once again, not a single one of our profiles was rebalanced in terms of cost.

    We also got a couple new fireteam options, some of them are really good (rodok haris, mixed vanguards) and while they're exciting, they don't plug any of the holes I mentioned above, and they don't really add much to the pile either. The rodok haris is one of the biggest plusses of this update, as it does bring added versatility that will be used and felt strongly for the (few) morat players left.

    Another positive of this update was the Raktorak wildcard. Raktoraks are relatively inexpensive, have an option for a decent big gun, and now can join any fireteam in the army. Options abound for Raktoraks joining daturazi to help them get a long range bite, or bringing the cost of Yaogat fireteams down. The Red Fury profile would have benefited greatly from the new NCO rule, as it would give us an aggressive and relatively cheap big gun that could do a lot of moping up on turn 2 or 3. Instead we got NCO on the vulkan shotgun profile, a profile whose main draw was being cheap and adding a fire template, and that will struggle to use the NCO rule most of the time.

    Finally, I want to bring up the Sensor Oznat. This was THE biggest surprise of the update and probably the only profile that is unanimously good, no strings attached. G:Synched pretas were something a lot of players asked for, and the sensor on a mov 6-4, extremely impetuous, smoke throwing platform with a vulkan shotty is pretty great. It will greatly help against camo heavy armies. This is what we expected, a creative, fun, different approach to plug the weaknesses of the faction without making it look like a they're just reusing stuff from other armies. This was a good idea.

    So, while the update did bring some positives, it felt underwhelming. And this is the key to understanding why people are unsatisfied: It's not bad, it's just... Half hearted.

    I look at these units and I get the feeling they weren't given the attention the other sectorials updated today were. This makes me upset, as MAF is a faction I love playing and I started the game playing them. To see them clearly waylaid in favor of other factions is disheartening to me, as a player.

    I will continue to play MAF out of stubbornness, but they will be left to be brought out on casual games when I feel like reminding people the murder monkeys exist. I am not satisfied with this update, and I feel like I am not the only one.

    If any CB staff reads this, please, we ask that you take the same care and dedication to our army that you've shown to other sectorials this year. It's a simple request, but one that will greatly improve our gaming experience. Thank you.
     
    Wolf, xagroth, Berjiz and 9 others like this.
  2. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Minor quibble, they would be 12, not 11. But the overall point stands.
     
    xagroth, TheRedZealot and DaRedOne like this.
  3. Child9

    Child9 Active Member

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    I really like the new Sogarat. Even if he's expensive, the +1B and -3MOD added to the Feuerbach AND the Assault pistol looks cool! And with the specialist Raktorak, it's a decent and not expensive Duo Fireteam that can do a bit of everything.
    The new Oznat with her pet add a bit of diversity, like it too.
    KHD on Rodok and the new Harris also, of course.

    Nothing to jump around but looks fine to me, new stuff is always nice!
     
    Abydog and TheDiceAbide like this.
  4. gamma ray

    gamma ray Well-Known Member
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    Additional minor quibble: Rodok KHD.
     
  5. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    I think this was a missed opportunity. It feels like a really quick job. Raktorak and Oznat upgades are the only one worth mentioning.
    Compare to other sectorials and upgrades this feels really dissapointing.
    Honestly, I was expecting way more...
    Morats are still at the bottom of the food chain.
     
    #5 Modock, Nov 29, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
    Pierzasty, Cthulhu363 and Sparrow like this.
  6. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    I'm going to try and play devils advocate a little here but I'm pretty sure I'm going to fail.

    Full auto Soggy makes an alternative to the APHMG, but is that burst 5 assault pistol of higher rate of fire feurbach with visor-resistant-mimetism worth ten points? And why lose the Haris? Kriza still have it (and more affordably) and a double ML Yan huo can now do it to so clearly it's not related to the damage potential or the S5...

    Oznat, is out of the blue, but 29 points for an impetuous sweeper with no defensive mods, and no stealth leaves a bitter taste in the mouth when I look at a strelok, the preta costs an extra point on top of the sensor...

    Rodok KHD: is very good, but also the only one in the faction? What about a Zerat? it's also only made hacking defense for the heavy units more expensive in comparison to Bit

    Rodok haris, great, it's been missing since HSN3 basically, probably more of a boon for Onyx than it is for Morats. No NCO for Rodoks is pretty naff

    Kurgat Autocannon in a haris is good, gives you another option for that haris slot with a bit more bite and some specialist potential.

    Suryats, the statline remaining the same is a blow (PHY 14+ SURYATS WHEN?) tactical awareness is a good potent upgrade but otherwise they're still over expensive mobile brigada.

    Raktorak, the Wildcard is great, very probably the best upgrade of the lot. The NCO is pretty pointless however, nothing in this update is convincing me that Kornak shouldn't be Lt in basically every list, he already pairs with that raktorak profile in a 5man link if i'm taking Suryats.

    Zerats, CB forgot they exist as well it seems, they will remain the only morat model I've not bothered to paint.

    Vanguard, I have an additional complaints with vanguard, the K1 sniper is still there (just WHY?) as is the 1 SWC tax on a vanguard Lt, because clearly morats a) need to hide their Lt and b) can afford to buy vanguards as a shell game.

    TL:DR
    A sectorial of proffessional soldiers which are starved for orders has not really benefitted from the better Command and control abilities
    Stat rebalances or new equipment didn't happen on the units that really wanted it.
    They still cost too many points.
     
    xagroth, Hecaton, Lesh' and 4 others like this.
  7. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    This update is very sad for me.

    Want to like Oznat, but seems too expensive for so easy kill.

    Want to like Sogarat, but seems to expensive. Why only FA2 on 1 profile (and not even LT)? 67 points too much. HMG Sogarat just no good as before.

    Want to like Raktorak, but why only NCO on worst profile? Poor choice in many teams.

    Want to like Suryat, but why Tactical Sense only on HMG?

    Want to like Zerat, but no update at all.

    Huge missed. Lots of bad synergy. Strange choices. Ignored units.
     
    Lesh' and Modock like this.
  8. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing that needed fixing was fixed. Looks like i'm shelving my poor Morats. That's not me being dramatic, i was going to shelve them before. I've been playing them exclusively for the last year and have only won one game...against an opponent who on the last round of a tournament had clearly given up and just ran all of his units up, without cover...and i still lost half my dudes. I was really hoping this update would make me want to play them again. This "update" solved nothing and just made some units more expensive. the last thing we needed.
     
    Sparrow likes this.
  9. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Done with Morats. Too bad. Favorite army.
     
  10. Child9

    Child9 Active Member

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    Well... Good for you... If an update you're not pleased with makes you stop, maybe it wasn't your favorite army in the end.
     
  11. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Guys, let's not start personal attacks on the thread, please.

    If someone wants to leave because they are unsatisfied, it's their right. Asking someone to stay when they feel they are not receiving the support they would enjoy is pretty much wrong and against the idea of the hobby or free market for that matter.

    I want to stay AND I want to be heard. It's no secret that I play Nomads as well as Combined, and I myself might be focused on Nomads for the next year or so given this devil may care attitude CB has shown to Combined Army in general.
     
    KanyeWest, toadchild, Lesh' and 3 others like this.
  12. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    I have a limited insertion tournament coming up in February so I think I'm going to play around with these changes and give them a go.
    Plus it's always nice to see the look of surprise when you plonk Morats down.
     
    Aspect Graviton likes this.
  13. Child9

    Child9 Active Member

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    Then why not discussing what we get instead of what we don't? Instead of saying again and again "Morats are weak" "I leave the game" (who cares and how is this relevant in any way?) "CB sucks". That new Morat sectorial won't change anyway, we have to deal with it, so what can we do with it? That would seems much more productive to me...

    What can we do with that expensive but powerful new Sogarat?
    What about the Cybermasked Rodok? And the Rodok Haris?
    Same for the new Oznat and her pet.
    Etc...
     
    bladerunner_35 likes this.
  14. Mattman

    Mattman Fenix, Defender of Aiur
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    I will be playing the update MAF a couple times before I totally give up on them because I do love the space monkeys.

    But I'd like to add my voice to the chorus of people wondering why they traded Bit and Kiss for a Rodok KHD and didn't also add a KHD Zerat. Now that an EI KHD exists, it just seems odd to give it exclusively to a 4-2 MI and not a skirmisher.

    Also I was really hoping to get Suryat/soggy mixed links. Even just a duo or haris, but the ability to add one soggy to a suryat core would have been the dream.

    On a positive note, I am excited to try the Rodok Haris, take a Raktorak in my other link teams particularly a Yaogat haris and the new Soggy looks like a blast (pun intended?). Also linkable autocannon looks like fun, but I still doubt I'd ever take it on a BS11 platform.
     
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  15. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I intend on doing a tactics thread soon, mate. Probably on saturday or sunday when I get time to sit down and think.

    The problem is: The update is not that great. What buffs we had were not exactly interesting, and the things we got removed were either very useful (Bit) or iconic (Sog Haris deathstar). So there is reason to be upset about here.

    Besides, I'm already thinking about what I can do with the new profiles, and they feel quite boxed in as it is. The new skills are put in in a very unwieldy and tacked on ways, and they don't play to our strengths. This is very different from Tunguska, TAK or even MO, where the strengths of the armies were played up despite them having very obvious weaknesses.

    In our case, our strengths weren't played to. We didn't get better, more aggressive lieutenants. We lost the best way to defend our heavy hitters, and we basically got funneled into using 2-3 models into every list if we want to be really competitive. That is not good, no matter how effective the new tools are in a vacuum, they just don't mesh well.
     
    Berjiz, Lesh', Bohrdog and 1 other person like this.
  16. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    Well, as usual I feel like I'm the only one who looks at a pile of buffs and thinks it's an improvement!

    I'm beyond happy to ditch Bit and Kiss in favor of a Rodok KHD, it both gives us a better specialist choice than the Paramedic, and I'd rather run one as a solo piece than Bit and Kiss anyhow. For 22/0 you get a KHD with mimitism, mines, BS, FDl1, and super jump... yes please.
     
  17. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    I think it's a particularly bitter pill when paired with the updates that have come along with it, the autocannon becomes potentially useful but at the same time the yan huo, while more expensive, has that damage potential on a BS14 Arm 5 2w platform. The order starvation is the same, the only tactical sense profile is also 2SWC (and very good) the only NCO is reasonable in more aggressive links (I wouldn't put it with vanguard),
    The only unit to get better at winning F2F rolls was the soggy feurbach for another 10pts and at the cost of an option I actually used pretty regularly. I'd have to plug it into the dice calc to see if a B1 feurbach with a -3 is a better reaction than a B2 feurbach in a haris as that had previously been a great ARO on a unit you could pretty happily leave behind cover for reaction fire, wade into the breach and hold it so to speak. hold a soggy up to a mowang or a yanhuo and it feels very much "here is what you could have won"

    The aggressive LT shoices aren't really there besides Kornak while IA pick up a fantastically optimised camo Lt2 for no points over standard and a variety of ways to spend those orders (like dat mowang).

    MO get points reductions, efficiency savings and profiles which were lost in the woods repurposed where as MAF who are overcosted to begin with have only had more expensive options added while the dead weight weapons and profiles stick around. It feels like a very cursory update with no real innovation or direction on how MAF are meant to play.
     
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  18. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    This has been the situation for an awfully long time it feels.
    There is very little, if anything, in MAF that other factions look at and and go "I'd kill to have that". The majority just feels very poorly optimised with faction wide bloat stats. It seems to me that CB backed themselves into a corner with the racial traits in CA and are unwilling to deviate from it.
    Don't get me wrong I enjoy my Morats, I just wish they were a bit stronger.
     
  19. Bohrdog

    Bohrdog Santathematics

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    I am going to play them MAF was my first step into CA and I have always loved them. Also I think the update is good for MAF I just think may people are disappointed because all the effort put into other factions updates in this release.
     
    locksmith likes this.
  20. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Honestly...
    Looking at this from an outsiders perspective...
    This is... a decent change? I mean... it looks like it's useful to those who played a lot of Morats in their Morat lists?
    Still feels like it could have been something more.

    Honestly, if there is one thing I would have done to MAF... it's toss a handful of Lieutenant Lv2 profiles in there. That honestly feels like what's missing, as it would REALLY emphasize the strength of ''Loss of Lieutenant is a very funny joke.''

    Still... out of the ENTIRETY of the Combined Army, the Morats still remain the most appealing to play to me, so...



    Who's up for being unreasonably stubborn...?